The point of those 2 things is – The fun part about playing the game is; playing the game.
In arena - you just go next. You can still spend your time playing the game.
In Mythic Raid - you just pull the boss again. You still spend your time playing the game.
In M+ if you deplete your key, the amount of time it takes to get back into that key to try again (to play the game) is SO incredibly punishing.
Getting Glad & CE can be punishing experiences (losing arena games, and wiping 400 times on the final boss) But you’re still spending your time doing the thing that you like to do. Which is playing the game.
In mythic+ most of the time spent in the game, is not playing the game. And that needs to change.
Yup. Substantially more than you gain when you win.
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You may be more right than you know, MAU (monthly active users/time) is a real thing for this development team.
Any small petty way they have to keep people on the treadmill they use, with zero hesitation. “Spite balance” as I call it is actually what’s killing the game. You can literally feel the disdain for the customer in the design of M+ and PVP (PVP having the same issue–it can take literally hours to get back to a rating you got to if playing a solo shuffle game mode and you got one bad lobby-hence why I only do pre group q content now)
The other thing I’d like to point out is that designing pve with such an obvious meta (class/spec tuning combined with dungeon tuning) is going to ultimately kill the M+ game mode. They have 7-8/28 specs that are desired atm in dungeons. That is a massive design fail, intended or not.
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The design of gameplay & the nerfs to tanks and healers it’s obvious.
The title “the war within” must mean something to mechanically.
PvP is a disaster. I have 0 interest in getting glad or even touching end game anymore because of how sloppy it has become.
when u keep being their little rat on a wheel chasing the cheese they will continue to watch and laugh. stop doing m+. thats the only way blizz will know, when they see the player count drop.
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Exactly what are you missing out that the game has to offer that is not the mised 7 crests from timing to complete out of time?
Because you are getting the same loot chances, max vault slot option, so what else?
Its only IO
So, is this thread of yours only about missing crests on a key level that is way beyond max rewards ?
Next patch you will be compensated with more crests for untiming keys.
My characters don’t need rewards, I wouldn’t care if they completely remove end-of-dungeon rewards from 15+
Rewards isn’t the point of my post - the point of my post is that for the people that want to do keys to get to a higher key (even if its someone who is playing m+ to get from 7’s to 8’s to 9’s to 10’s…) the game is too punishing to see that progression.
Say you need a NW +8 to get to your next best key, you can’t get invited to a NW +8 because people are extremely picky, so you grind out your own key to get a NW +8. Maybe you get lucky and spend ~2hrs rerolling your key to do this. And your stoked, you have a chance.
Then you get into the key, bam gets depleted on the first pull. Now you have a 7. RIP… 2/3 more hours down the drain to try and get another NW. Then CRAP, someone missed the hook on the 3rd boss… RIP… 2/3 more hours… You get 3 attempts, with different people, over (most likely) 2 days.
It’s not about the rewards, its about the time. I don’t mind some of my time getting spent on “rebuilding activitys” again this is a game and its leisure time. But that much time? Come on… it could be different. Different in a way that keeps people playing rather than running their 8 NW, depleting on the first pull, then logging off.
I can tell you in the near future they will change m+ system, since they already going after people who leave
As you know there are different game modes within WoW and they have their pros and cons over each other and when you want to measure the importance or value of TIME within each of them, it simply can not be balanced out in few actions.
Its up to each individual player to balance out their time & effort spent to reward ratio.
Yes it can.
What you’re saying sounds reasonable/logical, but its just wrong. No ones holding developers to too high an expectation here.
The time punishment for people that like arena is 5-30 mins (maybe, although no ones playing arena so it might be just as bad)
The time punishment for Mythic is like 3-5 mins
The time punishment (from my pov) for mythic+ is like 3 hours.
I can’t think of another game that has this type of cost.
There’s lots of ways to fix it, some are easy, some are big reworks, but there are ways. There’s no excuse, and it needs to change.
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Because that is the trade off you got to take by doing high keys, its that simple, specially since you’re just pushing IO.
Someone failing to complete a 7 will most likely not take 3 hours to try their 6, complete it (with only a +1) and try it in 7 again.
Would I want to be part of a Myth raid team to get a chance in Myth items on each kill and more GV slots? sure I’d love it, but I dont want to take part of the prog it takes, neither have a raiding schedule that I’d NEED to be playing on a weekly basis, so I’ll stick with the great vault roulete and only 1 item.
That is my trade for my time.
This isn’t really tradeoff - the tradeoff is the fact that the key is much more difficult, so its harder to complete.
The waiting for players is just a part of the game, as the level of content gets higher in any team-sport game the time it takes to find a team is going to be longer. Everyone knows that/accepts it.
What’s not a trade off is the fact that there is game systems in place that are creating a more punishing experience for all m+ players, this system doesn’t need to be this way.
I’m glad to have the tradeoffs, just actual tradeoffs.
They are literally only going after the people who join a key purely to leave. Everyone else is fine.
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How do you tell they where there just to leave ? Group pull a group of mobs someone dont like what they see they leave
If you leave in the first minute when no deaths have happened you joined that group just to leave. Yes there are some high keys you can brick very easily pull 1. This is not that situation.
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For the people that believe this type of thing –
Would you be okay with a 2 hour league match making system? What about a 3 hour R6 Siege lobby? 2 hour fortnite lobby? What would happen if in order to que up for a second ranked game after a loss, the player had to play 3/4 normal games to get another try.
The “high m+ is a very small community” reasoning doesn’t track with me – at the very top of every game is a very small community.
But these other games want people playing the game. Who knows, its an enigma.
How about in arenas where if you lose you lose like 150 cr, but if you win you get like 2 rating. Could potentially take all night to get that 150 back just to be back where you started.
Anything above a 10 doesn’t need a tuning pass or adjustment to design… title range is like 0.01% of the playerbase. Stop designing stuff around them.
Imagine if you lost rating for depleting a key.
Making the system better would help everyone, not just title.
You can see the effect this system has on the majority of folks that do m+ (keys 4-9)
People are picky, anxious, and angry in their keys. This is because the system is unreasonably punishing.
Also the most tilting arena losses are for those that are in Glad range – falling out of 2400 for your glad wins suck… It’s a similar exerpience as that, but for any ratings outside of that window; losing an arena match doesn’t feel nearly as bad as bricking your key.
This isn’t just a title problem.
I beg to differ, every season I aim to reach 1800… often I’ll get to 1750 or so then lose only to fall back near 1600ish and the wind is just taken out of my sails… I’m not the best PvP player… but any mythic plus player that bangs their head against the wall long enough can creep up slowly over time.
All it takes is a few losses in a row and you’re almost better off starting a new toon to push PvP rating on
I’m not saying you’re wrong, I support making these game systems better for everyone. But saying that PvP losses only matter in glad range isn’t true.
What you’re suggesting esentially comes down to Keys not being bricked, and that will basically never going to happen, this game is not made uppon a fixed “continue where you left” thing.
Theres many flaws in a design like that, and that would be the equivalent of a raid team to always start their raid on the prog boss they are at, lol just no.