Doing 15s/16s… Playing consistantly with 3 friends. Most of the time we spend is either finding a group or trying to get our keystones back up from a 13/14. It’s pretty lame and exhausting when you barely are able to spend your time working on the task/key that you want to work on.
M+ is a lot of fun to play when you’re making progress, or get in the groove… But its the only game mode that is excessively punishing for playing the game.
Lose an arena game? Just que up again
Wipe on a heroic or mythic boss? Run it back 230 times until you get it
Wipe on your 15 prog key? Sorry spend the next 4/5 hours trying to get the key back to even try and get better at it.
Pretty bad.
Really bad.
Edit here: Lot’s of folks are taking my above comments as some sort of statement that Mythic Raiding and Arena isn’t “punishing”. Here’s my intent with those comparisons:
In arena - you just go next. You can still spend your time playing the game.
In Mythic/Heroic Raid - you just pull the boss again. You still spend your time playing the game.
In M+ if you deplete your key, the amount of time it takes to get back into that key to try again (to play the game) is SO incredibly punishing.
Getting Glad & CE can be punishing experiences (losing arena games, and wiping 400 times on the final boss) But you’re still spending your time doing the thing that you like to do. Which is playing the game.
In mythic+ most of the time spent in the game, is not playing the game. And that needs to change.
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That is a fairly interesting take, actually.
Good perspective.
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Guess you should recruit someone so that you don’t have to waste time looking for a replacement. You don’t think that the sort of guilds that will spend hundreds of pulls wiping to a mythic boss can just snap their fingers and fill up a roster, do you?
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230 attempts over 5 hours is just over 1 minute per attempt. Seems unlikely.
This is why I suggested Bizz give us option to toggle our keys into PRACTICE MODE. Practice keys would not deplete OR give loot, but would let us develop our skills, experiment with pulls, iron out our strat… Then when we felt ready, we could toggle them back to ‘live’ and give it a go.
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the M+ andies wont like this
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You lose rating dont you?
Thats alot of time invested, gold spent on rebuffing, keeping 20 players entertained.
Would you prefer a rating loss?
I dont disagree with your viewpoint, the m+ system is really bad. Keys depleting serves a purpose but its too brutal - keys shouldnt deplete. you should be able to choose the key and key level you want to attempt - exactly the same how delves work.
No more ‘keystone’, just a player progression that you have unlocked the next key by timing it and you are unable to join that run unless you have unlocked it.
No more alts logging in for their weekly +8 without having unlocked that level first.
Progression is fun, degression is not.
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You’d be surprised. A lot of late-tier bosses have fail conditions that happen extremely quickly. Like…all it takes in Silken Court is to have someone space out and not get the debuff on the pull, and it’s a wipe. <10 seconds.
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It’s genuinely for your own good that it’s this way. If key economy didn’t exist you’d have sweats doing 25s since they would just retry all day long until they got it right.
Don’t remember who I heard it from but I remember a few years ago someone suggest that keys should have two charges. That way you can fail/practice it on the first try, and do it for real on the second try. Kind of a middle ground between what we have now, and a world where there are no depletes.
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They said you can run a raid boss back like 230 times and if you lose a 15 key run it can take 4/5 hours to get it back
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This is exactly how it should be, best of luck to them.
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I feel the lack of rewards make it a bit harder to find people at those levels but at the same time adding more at those levels when M+ balance is what it is at higher levels doesn’t seem fair.
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That’s what I suggested, at least give keys lives like 5 attempts before a break. People did not like that because it would somehow mean people would get free loot
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Tbh who cares if people are pushing 25s. Let them cook. Dont need rewards that high tho. Heh
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Because it will overall inflate the mythic+ rating by creating outliers. Title range can already be frustrating to get into if you’re not meta comp. Now imagine it being literally mathematically impossible to complete the keys some players are due to blizzard tuning. (Note: the possibility for this is already possible but it becomes way worse when you get unlimited retries.)
So your justification to keep a broken system is that it will be harder for the 0.001% of players if its changed?
Do you work for Blizzard? 
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The idea I was getting across was in raiding you just “go next” and pull again. however many times you like
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