Thats a good question, I play a healer. Some things in 15s kill folks where in 14s they don’t. They rotations that are needed are pretty different and I can’t get a really good feeling about whats working for me/whats not working for me if I am doing those keys in a 12/13/14…
I imagine dps/tanks have a similar experience where how you execute the key can kind of change, based on the damage of the abilities.
I’d gladly be doing high keys… problem is I lost interest after spending an hour applying to even 8’s a month ago and you only take overgeared over score players… and same running my own key only to get trolled with dps queuing as heals.
These are the same “chads” depleting your 14/15.
Congrats.
I feel a lot of people feel quite a bit of anxiety/risk when putting their own key up… Deplete system is toxic. Very toxic. Just makes people more hateful, picky, elitest, when it doesn’t need to be.
Don’t punish players for their desire to play the game 
Nope. If you survived it in a 14, you can survive it in a 15, because theyre surviving it in 19s.
Im gonna use you simply for examples sake. If they were surviving it in a 14, and dying to it in 15s, you as the healer could be a global or two late in reacting. Maybe they didnt get their defensive up until after taking the first pulse.
If youre struggling with a 15, run it as a 14 and pay attention to the stress points, and take that knowledge into the 15. Just throwing yourself at a 15 until you get lucky one time wont really help ya
Ahh yea those guys doing 19s are pretty bad at the game then if someone times a 20, if someone can survive it on a 20 they can survive it on a 17/18/19…
It’s the learning process man, people need reps to know what to do when to do it.
In a dawn 16, if you don’t double radiance aoe 2/4/5 tafter the aoe starts the groups dead. You don’t learn that in 12s/13s/14s.
In a 14 you can send mindblast whenever, radiance whenever, mind bender whenever. There’s no learning there.
The point of my OP was M+ players maybe get 2-4 attempts at a certain key a week (If they are “playing” legit like 6 hours a day)… (remember most of the time on the game is spent not playing the game… because the system is bad)
If keys never deplete, it changes what title manes.
Consistency to overabundance of time.
A group that needs say 3 tries per key will be way better off in this system vs a group that needs 100 tries per key.
So if you want a shot at the title, then, the current system is better for you? Cause time has diminishing returns.
Thats how they get to a 20, yes.
16s and 17s ARE reps for 18s. Thats the point im trying to make. Just because you cleared it on a 14 doesnt mean 14 keys no longer have a place.
Youre telling me things arent getting progressively worse as keys go up? You’re telling me that the same way you handle 2s is the same way you handle a 15, and then suddenly the world changes at 16 with absolutely no indication that strategies may have to change?? Something has to force you to fail before you’re able to reflect and adjust?
Doesnt really change anything.
The top players play this game for a job 
They have both. I mean think of hall of fame? Think of gladiator in arena? All of that is overabundance of time… Those guys get paid to play 
Someone who can play 12 hours a day will be on average higher rated than someone who can play for 4, on average.
Having a shot a title is the goal, but I’d rather spend my time playing the game that I love to play. Not sitting around waiting to play it or doing some chore instead of playing it. I am willing to wager that most people feel this way.
Sorry not really on OP’s side here but I think your logic is really a miss on this one…
But if a group needs 100 tries to do a key (for some reason.) Their score might move up one key level even with so muh time.
Practicing lower keys has value. Like, many CE guilds used heroic fyrakk as a simulated scenario for mythic.
“I should have infinite tries because my play time is limited” isnt a good argument
Oh, this reminds me, courtesy of Brewa, take off 10 ilvls when doing lower keys (or something close it) so stuff is just as challenging.
If it’s two key levels diff, take off 20.
Lol yeah i recall that thread
if a group can somehow do a 10 in 560 ilvl, they’re in a much better spot to do a 16.
Probably better off sticking to 12s cause no xal affix.
People learn from their mistakes??? Thats when most learning occurs in these type of games?
I get what you are trying to say… lower keys are stepping stones. But in practice its not that gradual. If you don’t play a certain way, the key gets depleted, and you don’t learn that by timing lower keys.
They way you play each key changes depending on the key level, you can’t practice for a 17 in a 16… If you execute a 17 like a 16 you’ll die to a mechanic you weren’t prepared for.
I don’t really know whats hard to understand about that, it sounds like you don’t have much experience to empathize with that.
It is. By 10% per key.
Aside from 9 → 10 and 11 → 12
What you’re claiming is that you healed the same way in 12s → 15s. Only ever used 30% mana and everyone ended up at 50% health. Then suddenly the 10% scaling from a 15 to a 16 was draining that 50% hp everyone had left over in the 15s
You dont have to fail to see that a certain strat/playstyle. As a tank i can start seeing which pulls are going to require me to need my big CD available in the next couple keys. I dont need to fail 4 times at the same difficulty before it clicks.
I don’t have fail multiple times to see that pulling pack by pack isnt going to cut it. If im barely timing with 30 seconds left and it took 34.5 minutes…that 100% scaling in the next key is going to translate to roughly a 10% longer run unless i
change something.
I dont need to fail that (x + 1) key 6 times to learn what i need to do. I can use that X key level to practice what needs done in the next key.
I undersrane reps are important. But not all of them have to be in that failed key range
Do…do you not plan ahead? Are you unable to see you healing getting less and less efficient as keys go up? Do you have to fail before you think that something has to change?
I think you are missing the point there.
There are absolutely zero decisions that should be made that only take into consideration a thousand players. That’s insane.
See you don’t have the experience to understand what I am saying. Keystones have breakpoints. Breakpoints that are pass/fail. If you do x/y will happen.
If I double radiance → penance → rapture shield an aug on a 14 mechanic, the shaman & the aug live. But if I do the same rotation in the 15, the shaman dies. (as a hypothetical that is incredibly common)
These are pass to fail mechanic difference, its’ not gradual. Its a complete rework on how you execute the key. But I don’t expect you to know that.
Yes you do, circumstances change. Variable’s change. Comps change. Cooldown availability changes. Why do the world first key pushers fail a keystone 30-40 times before they time it? Are you better than them?
Do you intuitively know the difference between a 16 & 17 and how that manifests in the key, and need no reps because you just know whats going to happen? Even on a static-highly scripted fight like SV first boss?
At the end of the day I get how you came to all your decisions and opinions. It’s very logical. But they lack flexibility. You’re very much nested in your beliefs, and if your beliefs were true no one would be depleting keys. It’s like you don’t even want to consider the data… The real world is that a team can have a ~95% completion rate of a 15/16 but then a ~10% completion rate of a 17… And you don’t seem to appreciate why that is the case.
Again my post is all about – people need reps. you learn by doing relevant content. Relevant content is completely inaccessible.
edit: which by the way accessibility helps everyone, not just the main consumers of the content – as mentioned by the posts above about keystone anxiety.
Notevenclose is a thing.
So kinda?
If it’s the same group, then it’s a lot more predictable.
If everyone is random, then it’s luck of the draw anyway.
It is gradual. Shaman lived in the 12. Shaman survived a little less in the 13. Shaman barely made it in the 14. Shockedpikachu.gif that the shaman died in the 15. Yes theres breakpoints but you can see them coming. Again its not like survived with 90, survived with 75, survived with 55, overkill by 36%. You can see the falloff coming.
Do you know they build their keys back up right? And they use those lower keys to practice what they want in the higher keys. Joys of voice comms with a consistent group
10%
If i know im struggling with DoT from destroying the spikes and maybe losing a person consistently, that something has to change. If i cant heal through the DoT, leave a spike up and plan a healing CD for Earth Shatter
You dont have to fail multiple times before seeing that a change needs to happen. You can see a better outcome in a lower key and apply it.
People make mistakes. Human error. A person whos got a 95% completion rate and can still botch it by a simple mistake.
You can get reps and practice in (x -1) keys.