M+, 80%/20%; Not Playing Game / Playing Game

Community General Discussion
21

I understand your concerns about mythic+ rating inflation and the potential impact of unlimited retries. However, let me offer a different perspective.

Inflation as a system works very well in PvP, particularly for allowing more players to reach Glad range when the top players push into the 2900-3000 CR range in rated 3v3. It broadens the competitive field and enables more players to participate meaningfully at higher levels. Why couldn’t a similar system work for Mythic+? Sure, ratings might become more inflated, but does it really matter if it gets more players actively engaging with the content?

The ultimate goal should be to encourage participation and get players out of the town and into the keys. If unlimited retries give more players the chance to practice and improve, that’s a net win for the community. It’s not about making the score meaningless—it’s about making the content accessible while still rewarding the most skilled and consistent players. Mythic+ already rewards those who can push high keys consistently; this would just lower the entry barrier for others to engage with the system.

As for creating outliers, it’s important to remember that Mythic+ is not just about the rating—it’s about the challenge and teamwork. Even with inflated ratings, you’d still have the competitive element of pushing to the next level.

Let’s also consider the comparison to raiding. Imagine if guilds were limited to 100 pulls a week on a boss. For many groups, this would stifle progression entirely. Progression often requires iteration, learning from mistakes, and trying again and again. If raiders can “run their face” into a boss repeatedly, why shouldn’t Mythic+ players have the same opportunity to learn and refine their strategies in keys without arbitrary constraints?

Unlimited retries don’t remove the challenge—they allow more chances to engage with it. And isn’t the whole point of Mythic+ to have fun and improve through repetition?

5 Likes
22

It’s not only about the people. Tuesday is a GREAT day, everyone gets their new key, we prog for awhile but eventually over a 4 hour session with 5 gamers you’ll deplete all your keys. It happens. But then the grind to get your keys back (random mind you) is another 4/5 hour time sink. For no reason.

In no other game mode do you have to do this, it’s not fun. It’s just aggrevating and can tear apart friend groups.

23

so OP can either find one more friend, or change the entire game for millions of players so he doesn’t have to make a friend.

24

I don’t want rewards tbh, the rewards are fine. We get a title and clout… I just want to play the game.

Because of the punishment structure we can’t play the game how we want, for no good reason too.

25

OP said he had a team… I think he is just saying that the game systems are weighted to where you have to spend more time brining keystones back up to where you want them than actually playing the keystones that you want to play.

Doesn’t sound like its a frictionful change to all the players to fix this for him tbh

1 Like
26

There’s many reasons for this because they want keys to have value so you feel like joining other groups. But when it feels you got to constantly go through rng to do it as you’re pugging it doesn’t feel fair which also might be a reason they want to keep it so people play with premades while in raiding you have the lockout to push you that way. I think in some way (tinfoil hat) they might want people to be wasting that time when pushing maybe so lower level of keys keep being done and more people are pushed at the top too.

They could simply remove depletion in higher keys where loot is not really what you’re going for anyway and in some way I’m surprised it wasn’t done but I’m not the one designing the game.

27

Depletion is an archaic mechanic.

1 Like
28

First off, it’s great to see a community member like you actively engaging in the forums and bringing attention to issues like this. It’s these kinds of conversations that help drive change and improvement for everyone playing the game.

I don’t think the challenges at this level of keystone progression are about rewards. The people pushing keys at this stage are here because they enjoy the rollercoaster—the challenge, the intensity, and the progression that Mythic+ offers in this “theme park MMO.” It’s not about extra rewards; it’s about making the experience more engaging and less punishing.

What the original post seems to be emphasizing is how hard it is to progress keys you need for your score. Most of the grind is spent boosting keys up from 14 to 15, only to have one shot at timing the 15. If you don’t time it, you’re stuck—forced to push the key back up, only for it to potentially turn into something you don’t even need. Compare that to other modes: PvP players can queue again immediately after a loss, often even running into the same team for a rematch. Raiders can spend hours on the same boss every week, fine-tuning their strategies. But Mythic+? If you deplete your progression key, you’re out of luck. No retries, no second chances—you’re stuck back at square one.

As a community manager, don’t you think it would be better to get players out of the main city and into the content? I get that this would need some details ironed out, but at its core, the current system punishes mistakes far too harshly. For players progging 15-16 keys, it can feel demoralizing to mess up once and lose the ability to try again. Giving players a way to requeue or retry would be a great quality-of-life improvement and encourage more participation in Mythic+ content.

Personally, I think this system could use a trial run. Right now, the way keys work doesn’t incentivize me to redo content I’ve already completed unless I’m boosting a friend or playing with a dedicated group. If you’re considering adding extra rewards, maybe focus on incentivizing players to help others time keys they’ve already completed for IO progression. Like Yodahtv mentioned in his video, rewards tied to helping others could be a great way to encourage community engagement while allowing players to focus on their own progression.

Mythic+ should feel like a system that encourages players to dive back in, practice, and improve—without the fear of being completely shut out after one mistake. Making it easier to retry would help achieve that goal and make the content more accessible and fun for everyone.

1 Like
29

The council is mostly regular players with access to a special forum section and a discord representing diverse ideas. Community managers are Blizzard employees. Just wanted to give some context.

About rewards it was mostly because if we boost participation then the wait times can be lessen, for me it’s a logical approach to it. While one of the big problem is about depletion in high key which for me is more about how that time is used playing the game, as you’re still playing even if doing a lower level key.

30

One reason I have not, and will never support the fact a key depletes. Changing to another random dungeon in failure, sure. BUT deplete? Naw. We can optionally lower it if we want to

2 Likes
31

He’s not wrong, high-end content is team content and it sucks to have to do it with a pug. But that’s what you get for adding 5man raiding to the game.

32

This is a giant who the eff cares take. What no life tryhards do should have no impact on the extreme mass majority left playing the game. No life tryhards are still going to be the ones getting titles even if the max key level they push is even higher and higher.

In the OP’s scenario, they are also highly unlikely to even get the same key to try again “if” they manage to push it back up in the first place. In fact, they have to complete the failed 15 just to decay it to a different 14 AND then time that 14 to HOPE it rolls back to the original 15…if they abandon the 15 and complete the 14, they are getting a different +15 which “may” not even be a key they want in the first place.

I’m more of the opinion that it would just be better for this esport masquerading as an MMORPG to have an unlock menu where you unlock the next level by winning the previous level and then you can select it. For baduals praying they get an AK or Mists key to be carried through to tryhards like the OP hoping to practice and eventually nail a higher level for score/pushing, this is a direct improvement on both extremes.

This also means people pugging can be more assured that people coming in “should” be reasonably competent since they too would need to meet the criteria to be eligible or at least let the leader have some way to override it if it’s like a group carrying a friend/alt or whatever. Plus you always have RIO who can still dig into your history details for those who really care to try and sniff out carries.

2 Likes
33

Quite a bit of the title players have reached the max key that their gear can let them obtain. You’ll never see someone doing a +25 in this season, the math just doesn’t work out at some point.

Having a system that is more accessible will only let players get closer to their skill-maxed keystone.

3 Likes
34

I think this would have adverse effects on people wanting to play lower keys… Why would anyone help me with my 5s if they just do 8s/10s all day???

35

Friends help friends with lower keys.

36

Ye, it’s brutal. I sort of wish push keys worked like delves where after reaching +12 you can just queue for the next key level and as you complete them the next unlocks.

Why would this affect that, though

As people doing mid-high keys pull a big one from their vault each week

37

Yea exactly… if we are having a hard time on a 15 city, I just want to run it back until we get it… These dungeons take reps, and having 5-7 days between reps is brutal…

38

At least there’s no more pushy weeks with affixes.

39

What are the 47 runs prior to that 15 City? Did those not count as reps? Did you not learn and adjust accordingly from those?

40

Well all I know is that sometimes my +5s /6s are really hard but when someone that has done 10s/11s comes to the key its SOO much easier… and I just dont know why someone like that would be in the que…