Why are you opposed to new players who have never run a dungeon before being run through it first, so they can see what it looks like?
What I’ve unfortunately seen is when a player says that (usually a tank or healer), they’re about to try to yolo the dungeon cold, rather than take advice.
Because the thread isn’t posted in good faith.
It isn’t a collaborative “solve this” it’s a “tell me I’m right.”
Agreed. I always announce that I’m new in the spec before starting. I’ve found more to be helpful, but there are still some that just want to blow through the dungeon.
I’ve been playing since BC. But I’m trying to spice up my gameplay and help fill roles in the guild.
I dont understand why things need to be dumbed down into oblivion… who in the company thinks thats fun? i mean seriously…
Blizzard made us the monsters we are. M+ trained people to GO GO GO.
M+ didn’t train people to run dungeons at an appreciable pace in TBC. M+ actually teaches the opposite because in challenging content I can’t tank 2-3 bosses and 20-odd mobs just fine.
I’d be very curious as to how you expect Blizzard to do this. How do you balance dungeons to prevent players who have been playing WoW for 2 decades from running it “too fast” for newer players without making the dungeons so difficult that groups don’t struggle just to complete it in the first place?
I actually agree that dungeons are pulled faster than I would prefer, especially since most tanks are clueless about how to actually pull fast. But the ultimate problem you’re trying to solve is a vast skill difference between players being put into the same group. And that is something that is completely unsolvable without making the dungeon unplayable for many groups.
They don’t, and they don’t want Blizzard to slow down dungeon pace. What they want is for people to go at whatever their pace is.
You also can’t just skip half the trash
I know it’s not a skill issue because I am trash at this game and when I tank it is impossible for me to die. Like I couldn’t die if I tried.
I only advocate slowing it down a little bit to where a trash tank like me cannot just pull everything in sight and still survive.
Which is where low level dungeons were a few years ago where overpulling was still possible but only in extreme circumstances. This was fun to play still regardless of experience level.
How to accomplish this? Honestly not my job, I am not a game designer. The purpose of player feedback is to flag problems with the game. Game designers don’t take player suggestions seriously.
If I can speak candidly, the responses are perfectly representative of the absolutely abysmal attitude from the WoW community.
When I think of new players getting involved in the community, I think of new potential friends and a new generation of players who bring their own perspective onto this game we all love. Thus promoting the long term health of the game.
But I get the distinct impression from a lot of long time WoW players that they don’t really care about the well being of new players at all and they wish they could get away with new players just ****ing off somewhere else and letting WoW be for them exclusively.
While long time players intuitively understand on some level we need new players to enter the game to prevent it from dying, their response to maintain their control and seniority is to tell new players to stay away from them until they git gud. They don’t want to deal with new players because new players suck at the game.
Long time players really want to have their cake and eat it. They want new players to enter the scene, but only under THEIR rules playing THEIR way.
They’re not willing to acquiesce anything for new players, and low level dungeons is a perfect example. Low level dungeons are literally built SPECIFICALLY for new players. That’s supposed to be THEIR content specifically to acclimate players to playing in a group. But long time players have taken complete ownership of it.
Even considering that the low level dungeons are supposed to be built specifically for new players, the suggestions here are a compromise. Just retune the dungeon to slow it down a little bit so that the low level dungeon serves its intended purpose. Still speedrunnable, but slow enough that new players still have fun.
No, turning every dungeon into a follower dungeon is a bad idea because low level dungeons are supposed to introduce new players to the social aspect of the game. Making new players by themselves is a cop out. It’s especially a bad idea because that’s not a genie that can be put back in the bottle. Blizzard won’t be able to remove the followers from dungeons later without significant backlash.
Now, if our response is to not give a single **** about the community at all there is an option that makes this a lot better: Make WoW not an MMO.
Take the realm browser and incorporate functionality to display player run servers with custom rulesets. Merge the servers into a small set of much larger servers and call them “Blizzard realms”.
This would have the advantage of the already insulated communities in WoW to be even more insulated and offload the costs to maintain the continued existence of WoW onto the customer base.
which is why this suggestion shouldnt be implemented. tiny group wanting this.
Im suggestion is to level your toon by questioning first before your jump into dungeons your unfamiliar with. You have to learn your rotation and toon enough before just jumping into dungeons. Take it from an old schooler thats been playing for 16 years. If you want to pay the repairs by all means, but logically, this is your best bet of advice.
This is understandable, but if you’re joining in on a group activity you’re going to be doing what the group wants. It’s just reality that the vast, vast majority of leveling characters are being piloted by veteran players who want to get the leveling process over with as quickly as possible.
i did one dungeon where i was the healer n didnt need to heal at all lol
legit ran the entire dungeon by literally running. its was so bad yet funny.
Skill does come into play here when looking at a potential solution. Sure, the fact that a tank that isn’t particularly skilled is unkillable is a problem for what you’re talking about here, and will contribute to making the problem worse.
But whatever solution Blizzard comes up with can’t ignore the fact that there are skilled tanks in the pool as well. With such a varied range of skills, Blizzard has to target a skill range for where the balance should be. Anyone who is more skilled than the target will still be able to steamroll the content; anyone below will struggle and possibly even be unable to complete the content.
Right, but Blizzard also did what you are just asking from DF into TWW. Tanks were even more unkillable in low end content in DF than they are today; it made no difference whatsoever in the speed that low level dungeons were run. Sure, maybe this is still the solution and Blizzard just needs to go further; but then you run the risk I outlined in the first section.
This is a cop out answer. The full solution is something that will come from game designers, sure. But rejecting the arguments why your suggestion wouldn’t work and just expecting the game designers to overcome them is being unreasonable. The primary reason dungeons are the way they is a 20-year range of skills choosing to participate in the same content; there is no solution to that. And any attempt at a solution will almost certainly make the game worse for more players than are currently affected.
I can’t speak for everyone, but this just isn’t it for me. It’s that I recognize the problem is one of the duration the game has existed; that toothpaste can’t go back in the tube. If you make it so that experienced tanks can no longer survive more than a couple packs at a time, you now make it so that less experienced tanks can’t survive at all. Congratulations, experienced tanks have a worse experience because they have to go slower than they find fun and new tanks are farmed by the dungeon itself.
Because you are expecting experienced players to acquiesce to demands that won’t actually help the newer players. If anything it’s more likely to teach new players the game is too difficult for them. And since you want to act like identifying problems is your only job and treat it as a failure if the game designers do not act upon your feedback, there’s nothing to actually make me think you actually care about the experience of the players you are supposedly trying to help.
Here’s the solution: Record experienced player metrics and new player metrics and retune dungeons around that data then test until they get it right.
Any reasonable person would reject the notion that they shouldn’t try because “it might make things worse” out of hand. Right now the whole thing is completely dysfunctional and needs to be fixed.
You’ve just given up before we even tried.
There’s no hope that the retune will make low level dungeons too hard for new players because low level dungeons will never be as hard on new players as they were in classic, and new players liked them at that difficulty.
Go in with your own five man party and you can go at whatever pace you want.
I guarantee Blizz can tune the difficulty in a way that experienced tanks can’t hold W key and new tanks aren’t farmed by the dungeon.
new players are funnelled in dragonflight content for which all the original dungeons have follower dungeon version. The entire game doesn’t need follower dungeons for ‘new’ players and I am rather doubtful blizzard will go back to previous expansions and change them to have for the few people who would do them.
You realize they already tried slow and tedious in legion right for leveling dungeons? And they reverted the change next year.