Restricting loot in PVE just shows they aren’t confident in the content or its longevity. They feel that once you get all the gear you want or need you’ll stop playing. Unfortunately, we run into a situation where content is made more difficult simply because you don’t have the numbers to do it, and getting to the proper ilvl is out of your control.
1 piece of loot for a failed key is not very rewarding. Killing 7 bosses in a raid and not getting loot is not very rewarding.
People get gear to do content. They don’t get gear just to have it. If they can’t get gear, they can’t do the content. If they can’t do the content, they’ll start to quit b/c the game isn’t fun.
I mean reading through this I think the better solution would have been to bring everything else up or let raid stay ahead due to how many people you have to wrangle in a group for it. I have not touched Shadowlands but from what all I have seen loot is far too little to justify a change like this.
You can certainly draw this conclusion given the evidence we’ve seen.
I really agree with this too.
Now… anecdotally… I can say I’ve seen a healthy amount of loot drop for me in heroics (haven’t done mythic 0 yet as I’m not geared). Is it loot piñata? No, but I did get some upgrades in the batch of runs I’ve done. I also acknowledge I may just be lucky and other runs may result in nothing at all. Getting loot is rewarding and if I hit a fail streak… I might stop playing and pick up one of my alts.
Fun increases the longevity of playtime, not loot drops. I’m more inclined to keep playing if I am having fun, and my power lvl increasing is fun. Shadowlands was my highest praised expansion since MoP, I couldn’t stop playing…until I ran 6 m+ as top damage dealer and got 0 loot drops, as well as clearing 4 bosses in CN and getting no loot…it’s no coincidence that I haven’t been back on. I feel like I haven’t had anything but disappointment and stagnation since Tuesday. Chasing loot doesn’t keep me subbed, getting power level increases and getting to use and feel those power increases in content like dungeons and BGs/world pvp is what is fun. Y’all are so out of touch and got it all backwards.
The same people that are saying this will make the game more meaningful are the same minority that picked a covenant based on feeling. The overwhelming majority of played chose a covenant based on power, and the overwhelming majority of players think this change will harm the longevity of WoW.
We have actual data that proves this too. It’s laughable that people honestly believe the majority picked a covenant for the roleplay. They looked at what was performing best and went with it.
I think the fantasy of everything about vanilla being perfect + RPG elements of games prior to this that people left those games to play wow instead because they hated those mechanics = their design goals.
So 5 pieces of loot for 20 players was 25% of the group getting loot. in m+, even if you fail the timer you get 1 piece, or 20%. 2 pieces or 40% if you time it. And m+ is infinitely farmable, raiding is not. Raiding was already the crappiest way to gear up at 25% of the group getting loot, at 3 pieces of loot per 20 players it’s 15% and is an absolute joke. You could kill 2/3 of the instance and statistically not get a single piece. Imagine how slowly this is going to result in gearing up for mythic raiding guilds that arent the top 50-100 in the world. You kill maybe 1 new boss per week, maybe 2-3 the first week. So week 2, you have…6 total pieces of loot? so it’ll take 3 weeks for every person to statistically get a SINGLE piece of loot. When most guilds are already struggling to kill heroic bosses because of how overtuned they are.
That’s to say nothing how how badly raiding gets screwed in the great vault. to unlock your FIRST reward for raiding, you need to kill 4 bosses. that’s nearly half the instance for just ONE option. Killing 4 bosses is no big deal on normal, slightly harder but still doable for most on heroic, but mythic? how many guilds will be 4/10 first week in mythic with how little gear drops and how overtuned heroic has been? To get 2 options? clear everything up to sludgefist. to get all 3? literally have to kill mythic denathrius, something most guilds wont do for months. By comparison, pvpers have to win like 4-5 yolo rbgs to cap out, and m+ gets its first option after ONE dungeon.
Right now, raiding is the most gear reliant form of progression, that rewards the worst gear. M+ is dramatically better for fast gearing, and pvp is dramatically better for getting 220-226 pieces(since all the gear you get now can eventually be upgraded, unlike PVE rewards).
This is a flaming zeppelin about to come crashing down to earth as the vast majority of guilds simply cannot gear enough from raiding to actually progress and the out-of-raids requirements to kill raid bosses becomes the worst it’s been in a long, long time. Get ready for every serious raider to be forced to rank up to 2100 to actually sniff 226 pieces in any timely manner, because we sure arent going to be getting very many from mythic raiding. Gear is either going to have to be buffed significantly, the bosses will need to be nerfed significantly, or this will be a tier where you see never-before-seen numbers of guilds that were full-clear on mythic last expansion, dont ever go 10/10 and take an eternity to progress simply based on the sheer lack of gear that drops from their content.
Blizzard still hasn’t found the best compromise to those people who self drive themselves to be 200 percent while doing normal raid mode and scream at anyone who isn’t at their level versus those who just want to play the game and go from there.
The biggest difference is…It’s perfectly fine if you want to maximize your character. Just don’t tell everybody else to do it on content where it is practically irrelevant.
MMO: “Massive Multiplayer Online”. yea, youre right. Blizzard doesn’t want you to interact with random people of the community. They want you to play with the same 5 friends your entire World of Warcraft life. That makes total se…Oh, wait… you’re posting on a level 39 from Moon Guard. Lol.
Are you guys still going to go through with this? I’d understand if you were dropping it to 4/20. I wouldn’t like it much, but that’d at least make sense. But 10 man groups get 2, 1 per 5 players. Mythic+ is endlessly repeatable. This was a problem last expac, too, those of us who did not want to run M+, preferring to gear for raiding through raiding, were perpetually behind, but whatever. Why do you want to drop less than 1 per 5 players for larger groups? We were a happy 10 man Heroic (pre-Mythic) raid group before you decided that level of content required 20 people. We survived that change (when so many 10 man raid guilds didn’t), but we’re quite a bit more casual now, and that’s whatever (and I’ve had a bad few weeks lately myself but hoping to pick things up soon - I’m currently shamefully undergeared among my raid group).
But now you’re going to penalize us for not splitting into 2 smaller raid groups? We actually could field the tanks for that, but why? We did normals on T/W, before they were adjusted, too, so I guess we missed out on that.
This is baffling, it’s likely a mistake you’re making, and you guys aren’t even engaging with us on it. Why do you feel that giving larger raid groups less loot per player than small raid groups, and significantly less than M+ runners (who are already unhappy about the loot they’re getting this expac vs last, too) is necessary?
Why is 1 drop per 5 players too much for a 20 man N/H raid group? It’s not like we can freely trade items. Why do you not want raiders to gear through raiding?
Edit: And here’s what gets me. Raiders used to enter raid tiers in heroic dungeon gear, and all gear up together over the course of the tier. But now we start with some in heroic dungeon gear, others in mythic/mythic+ gear, with bosses which are tuned to expect that. I’m Todding it up right now (bad few weeks, didn’t even get a lot of Heroics in), but someone who did diligently do Heroic dungeons shouldn’t be a liability starting a tier. Last expansion the M+ players didn’t even need drops from raid! It seemed like you were trying to balance that a bit this expansion by pulling the itemlevels more in line with eachother, but now you’re like “oh, the ilvl discrepancy is reduced, but raiders don’t get loot anyway - I mean half of you don’t even need it because you run M+, have fun.” and you think that’s the best design decision available here. This is a mistake.