You’re not making much sense to me with your points. I think there’s a barrier in our understanding.
No forsaken died in Undercity and Undercity was destroyed by the Horde and fully evacuated.
Most of the Night Elf race died in Teldrassil which was burned by the Horde, and their souls were obliterated.
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To reiterate. The Horde weren’t even remotely in danger during Undercity. I think you don’t understand, because you don’t want to understand.
How were they not in danger?
Depends on their presentation but reparations is half the issue, the first one is bringing those responsible to justice.
And since the entire Horde leadership is guilty of directly and indirectly causing the atrocities and the war I doubt the reparations would be considered anything than blood money. Especially since it seems the populace seems to think “we did nothing wrong”, and by populace I don’t mean the playerbase.
But I am not even hopeful about any sort of justice coming out of any of this. The Night Warrior who was introduced in a patch called “Tides of Vengeance” is being used as a vehicle by the story devs to tell a “Vengeance is wrong so just forgive and move on” story.
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There’s no indication at all that they were ever in danger. Sylvanas was so comfortable in her tactics that she was gassing her own troops?
Because they planned it all and fully evacuated it. Then blighted the Alliance and the city.
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Do you mean the Horde as a whole, then? Because you could argue that the Alliance was never in danger at Teldrassil either. The Forsaken had Undercity and Brill destroyed, and the Forsaken people were displaced.
You know that the entire Night Elf race was eradicated… right?
And they lost 3 zones? And the Horde got full control over Kalimdor?
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I do know this - hence why I made an entire thread, which you’re currently in, to discuss it and discuss the future. You are misunderstanding my point of why I said that. This is no longer fun or interesting for me.
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Well but you’re directly comparing the War of Thorns to Undercity, but they aren’t really comparable.
One was the destruction of a race with most of them killed and their souls destroyed, 3 of their zones destroyed or taken away and their capital city destroyed by the Horde.
The other one was an empty city destroyed and blighted by the Horde.
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If we moved away from world-ending threats, it could be a central narrative. Something along the lines of Stormwind’s ineptitude during Vanilla being seen throughout every zone.
Night Elves working in Lakeshire, Duskwood, etc. Hell, a sentinel group in Duskwood to replace the Night’s Watch would be badass.
That’d just be treating Teldrassil with the gravitas of real-world displacements of people. It’s not much different than the current narrative which is outright ignoring the Night Elves sleeping in the gutters of Stormwind.
Because there’s a through-line that started somewhere which gradually influenced everything else.
Using Romani as an example, Germany essentially started it using pseudo-science and belief of superiority and now that belief has become so wide-spread across Europe that anyone who identifies as Romani faces intense prejudice across the continent.
The fact that horrible prejudices can fester globally because one nation adopted a stance isn’t unheard of.
Not 1:1 because Blizzard is much more culturally sensitive than it was back in Cataclysm.
Something along the lines of quests where you assist a woman in rescuing her husband who was detained by Stormwind Guards on suspicion of something that he didn’t do, or a quest which has you convince the local fruit seller to give unsold fruit to the poor rather than dispose of it, etc.
Use the situation that already exists in-game to tell more compelling narratives that also allows Stormwind to be more than just “the human kingdom of good guys.”
I compared it in terms of a war response, because it’s true. Undercity was retaliation for Teldrassil, the Alliance marched on Undercity to confront Sylvanas and to try and claim the city.
And the objective was a complete and utter failure, catastrophically so. Not only did we not take the city, but the majority of our troops there died when it blew up. Not much of a retaliation, is it?
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So in a timeskip “rebuilding Azeroth” you don’t want the NEs back in their lands trying to rebuild but actually follow the immediate consequences of a displaced and brutalized people.
How will the Horde reperations play a role in this scenario? Will the Horde player arrive with foods and donations from orgrimmar to build these people tents like the salvation army?
I don’t think the Alliance playerbase want to be victimized and looked down on any further than they have in BFA. This all seems really in poor taste to dedicate game resources to players just to remind them how bad BFA was for them and how they have to pick up the pieces now as their questing content.
But thats not the comparability of what actually happened. The comparison of the Horde to Germany is to illicite the huge human atrocities they commited. If I had to compared to anyone though it would be the Empire of Japan and what horrific things they did. Reparations were part of their surrender agreement but it took generations before they formally apologized and recognized their many many crimes. If you want to draw real life mirrors will the Horde be like Japan? Pretend they did nothing wrong and sweep all their crimes under the rug to not shame themselves to their children?
I still fail to see how this has anything to do with the Night Elves, Horde crimes and reperation. Perhaps it can work as some sort of class divide questline to make the world richer by showing the haves and the have-nots but still we are not even talking about the main topic here.
I am not sure how we went from war atrocities of the Horde on their victims to unequal wealth distributions and how Humans of Stromwind can be bad too.
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Just because it didn’t go to plan doesn’t mean it wasn’t a retaliation. Given the denouncing of Sylvanas by the Horde, any thing more at this point is kind of silly.
And not only that, but the Horde achieved all their goals with Teldrassil.
Ended the Night Elves as a nation, gained control over Kalimdor and achieved peace on their conditions. Also gained new land obviously.
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They stood with her in Lordaeron when they could have just turned her over.
Denouncing her after losing the war and her turning on them in Nazjatar means very little.
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But since they have done it, any further retaliation now (like if the Alliance decided to storm Orgrimmar, as an example) would just continue the bloodshed and cause even more losses for the Night Elves, and Alliance.
The key is that it was unsuccesfull. Unsucessful retaliation is completely worthless.
Words are cheap. It’s easy to say something. It’s also easy to throw out the warchief position and instate a council instead. Easy and convienient. That’s not good enough. Not by a long shot.
Too little, too late. Far too late. But not all debts must be settled in blood.
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