Okay but nobody is arguing against the existence of steady flight in general, just saying that it makes sense to limit it for the first time through the content.
Where did I say I’m opposed to steady flight existing?
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Only Druids back in TBC got flight at level 68 cause of a quest line they did to get flying…rest of the classes had to wait till level 70.
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Hmm… maybe. I remember Druids had that, I played one. I thought I bought the slow mount with 68, or was this because I made the Engineer Mount? Too long ago.
Again if it so damn easy then Dragon Flight should be put behind TWW Pathfinder its only fair now…what is good for the Goose is good for the Gander. Or are you one of those that deem Disabled players or players that physical sick from DF still, are second class citizens of Azeroth…its a very fine line on this issue.
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Time to get something through your head, very few, if ANYONE, thinks that and posts asking such just makes it look like you are looking for reasons to denounce others.
Let me sum something up for you and others: TWW pathfinder (and I agree that it should be the last time pathfinder should be used for only one form of flight if any) is easy to get, and DR will likely just make it easier to get.
We get you want thigns to be equal/fair, but that does not mean that the only way to do such is your way. I’d say there is at least a 95% chance that, once TWW drops, everyone will have steady flight within their first week of time played, DR and ground mounts used combined.
And before someone challenges my claim, I said 1st week of time played, not first week it is out. So that means their first 7 days if they do /played before starting and again once they complete pathfinder.
I use TBC flying all the time and I see many people with professions and questing using TBC flying frequently.
Only time I see people using DR is for long distances which can more than often than not be covered by a hearthstone.
But once again this goes back to options. BlizZard restricting options tips their hand that they want to segregate players based on playing differently and collectively punish those that do not play the narrow BlizZard patchfinder way.
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Having a progression-based game is good. Having a progression system that ultimately doesn’t value any of your progress, continues to reset you and put you back at Start, is not good. That is the error Wow continues to make.
I believe games should be preserved at the cost of new things, when new things would devalue or significantly alter the experience. Case in point: An expansion should never happen the way they do in Wow.
You want to add new content? That’s great. Let’s figure out how to make that content fit alongside the plethora of other content, without displacing it. Remember, players will invest YEARS playing games that have zero new content and no reward for playing - That’s what they call ‘fun.’
If a mechanic or a macro or an addon is exploitative or doesn’t represent much in the way of engagement when you are playing it, yeah, should be changed/removed, if things can’t be left alone. Exploits, cheats, those things should be fixed in real time as they pop up. No one needs to justify not letting players exploit something unintended.
What’s ‘intended’ is where the adherence to design philosophy comes in. When you add new content, and your new expansion reworks a prior expansion feature, creates design overlap, and then has two similar systems competing for design space, that cannot be functioning ‘as intended.’
Knowing how ‘design-by-committee’ works in a place like Blizzard, the reality is no one was tasked with continuity of features between the two - and if someone was tasked, they really dropped some balls or need to ask for help.
I consider that a leadership failure. The danger with outright removing intended design, such as the ‘pet love’ feature that used to be required for pet management, it may be the case where most players hate it, but some people enjoy RPing with their pet.
As with anything they change or update, this represents an opportunity to preserve the gameplay, someone might actually enjoy the mundane aspect of giving their pets treats and getting feedback from their pet.
In that case, removal should be avoided pretty much at all costs. Modifying the ability to be cosmetic or out of combat, would be a great way to preserve the intended design, without forcing players to manage something that ultimately feels bad in combat.
Are you referring to old quests and zones, such as the ones removed for Cata launch? AFAIK nothing remotely close to that has happened since. They have been more careful to update things without losing the original version - Scarlet Monastery returned in OG form this previous hallow’s eve event… including OG bosses and loot drops.
They added a mechanic to toggle between the two dungeons. Can toggle Old/New once you have completed the related quest. Kinda reminds me of the Flight Mode toggle spells? Except that one will be used more frequently the more a player switches, making the spell cumbersome.
No one disagrees. It’s how that has been handled for the past 20 years in a billion dollar studio, that is cause for concern. 20 years… and the sales pitch we all just received at Blizzcon… It’s Time To Come Home.
I disagree.
The first step in making everyone happy: Stop taking requests. When someone wants a thing added to the game, don’t add it.
Second step: Utilize foresight and hindsight.
Third step: quality over quantity, always. Players can tell where the quality falls off in each expansion. There’s no reason to make sure you release 5 new zones and 10 new dungeons and 2 raids and… When they are all mid and people blow through them in a week and no one is actually ‘progressing’ anymore.
Progression went from ‘trying to complete all the bosses in the raid’ to ‘trying to fill out a character sheet’ and that’s the primary problem with raiding.
The individual player’s perspective, and the experience they recount to you, will always be somewhat sujbective. The game, should be developed objectively, without each players ‘preference’ in mind. Notice how in all the posts I’ve made here, I’ve not once demanded anything specific? I haven’t cared if they remove PF, modify PF, remove flying from PF, or put both flight modes behind it.
What I’ve asked for… consistency, quality games design. Pick your philosophy, adhere to it. Don’t release an expansion that suddenly deviates from your philosophy.
If Ion and Co hadn’t insisted on changing philosophy regarding flight in Wow, we wouldn’t even be having this discussion RN. Pathfinder wouldn’t even exist. And it’s lifespan during the time since WoD, has not been justified in any meaningful way.
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Players have earned TBC normal flying many times so asking for another PF while DR exists runs counter to any design or balance arguments levied.
Furthermore it clearly illustrates the staying power of TBC normal flying as the devs have tried many poison pill approaches.
Patchfinder was a poison pill approach to try to weaken support for TBC normal flying.
And to psychologically manipulate and modify behavior by trying to normalize WoW game play at end cap to be “acceptable” without flying at the launch of the expansion.
No matter the level of prodding, poison pills, shenanigans, time gating, gaslighting, etc. In the end popularity for TBC normal flying remains popular even in the face of the presence of DR. The beta of dragonflight was the final nail in the coffin for the devs realized that player support for TBC normal flying was and is overwhelming and will be overwhelming popular.
After nearly ten years of patchfinder they couldn’t change player behavior psychologically or modify it. Players did not accept being grounded at the start of the expansion and why DR and TBC normal flying now exist.
Now, they are trying to same tactic with toggle switch by trying to punish and modify player behavior by forcing players not to use both.
That is just as bad as patchfinder shenanigans and that will fail as players are overwhelming in support of player choice and options.
Human decency is above all ese integral for MMORPG game design, balance and belief of the game’s direction moving forward.
The existence of patchfinder in its death throes is at this point superfluous and doesn’t serve any purpose other than to remind players that BlizZard lost the battle and war against flight but they are sill willing to throw one last tantrum.
I feel sorry for them that they still feel they have to resort to such juvenile tactics. But keep in mind we had momentum, energy and time on our side and will prevail on this final frontier as well once more.
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Dang y’all still going at it huh? 
Pathfinder will exist August 26th no matter what you say or do here.
Aaaaaaaaaaand I don’t think you know what momentum/energy means especially since its the same handful of y’all replying to the only current pathfinder thread.
(Momentum/energy = more and more people are taking your side and the what you are pushing is gaining traction) Neither is happening here.
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Let me add that all they had to do is let go and listen to player feedback.
Instead, they double down and made things worse for themselves over time. All those quest chains being bugged and needing to be tested to work with patchfinder achieve.
All that time spent on that could have been used on more productive endeavors that could have facilitated more player trust by building better quest chains.
Instead, they thought they could take short cuts and assume player behavior could be shaped like we are hamsters and not human beings.
But they were measured and found wanting and most importantly they underestimated the emotional and logical intelligence of the WoW player base.
That is why PF shouldn’t exist because it is one last sand in the eyes to try to punish those that play differently.
Just like those that toggle switch which is also trying to punish and modify behavior.
As we saw with covenant that went down like a lead balloon.
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They did, which is why they not only KEPT pathfinder, but expanded on dragonriding and renamed it to a more fitting name of dynamic.
The way the prepatch event played out is a prime example of traction/momentum/energy/feedback.
Blizz listened to all the feedback/complaints and within TWO DAYS, they already hotfixed it to what players were asking for.
People seem to be more interested in this discussion than you are willing to admit.
Miss your Ammo Pouch/Quiver?
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“People” = the same 5 of you arguing back and forth.
It’s not a hot topic by any means. 
Well if you check my profile, you’ll notice it’s safely fastened to my back 
Never leave home without it!
The cast time is designed to modify player behavior and to discourage the use of both.
Furthermore, it show the lack of understanding how players want to use the tools put forth. On the other hand BlizZard do not use their tools like the forums and website all that much or effectively.
And it also reveals I might add a big flaw in BlizZard methodology in that they think the data on this will back them up. But it will clearly show that players want to have choices.
And those choices reflect on when and where a player is at in the process of questing, profession gathering, or even playing with friends.
Thus, what we see is that players are flexibile and want to have tools readily available and not sequestered by reasons that do not make sense from a balance or game play perspective.
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Not gonna relitigate the issue, since I’ve already said above why it’s different. Case in point, Skyriding involves more engagement and limitation when compared to steady flight.
Acknowledge the difference, or don’t, either way the facts are the facts.
The engagement is contingent on player activity. That activity is also led by player creativity and free flow of playing organically the game without really planning. But planning out routes is far easier with TBC normal flying which is why it is very popular for players that plan or play with a lets go have fun mentally.
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Actually the normal flight form was just bought from the trainer at 68. Swift flight form did have a quest and you weren’t eligible for it until you paid for the faster flight.
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Then you also have this silly blood elf here replying to random people for bait to keep the dead topic going too lol.
So 10/10 “people”.
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This is why uneven game design comes back to bite BlizZard.
Same thing happened with the DF and now TWW beta regarding Rogue design while other classes received most attention.
How that ties to TBC normal flying and DR is the following. They didn’t really need to make PF for TBC normal flying in TWW.
Truthfully they could have used the resources to fix bugs and other major issues like black screen crashes then worry about tying TBC normal flying to patchfinder.
And for that reason alone it shows poor resource management and also not understanding how to make priorities given that they are going with a shorter expansion launch cycle.
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