There is no actual legit reason so far.
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Watch out Catelan youâll get called a Karen for wanting Pathfinder taken out of TWWâŚseems if your disabled and canât use Dragon Flying and want Steady Flight we are Karenâs now.
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Patchfinder existence in an expansion you can use DR unrestricted is very unprofessional and comes off as spiteful.
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Thanks for the heads up but Iâve ben called many names in my lifetime. I learned looong ago that when someone points a finger at me, they have 3 pointing back at themselves 
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One version of the game allowed for:
- Player to get quest, interact with world, acquire dragon mount.
- Player collect glyphs to max dragon riding out, at their own pace, whether thatâs 100% right away when you get the dragon, or casually along the way as you quest through dragon isles.
New version of the game no longer allows for either one, you just get a skillup or an unlock for dragon riding at predetermined levels, the game spends them for you. It takes from 10-70 to completely level up dragon riding skills.
Thatâs a fundamental change to anyone who has experienced DF content, and goes to play it again on a new account, unlocking DF. It might not be an important difference you are willing to consider, but the difference is there, plain as day.
Facts. Objectively.
Also, no one is saying dragon riding changed? Instead⌠I am stating that Skyriding is dragonriding, reworked in an inferior manner, with additional delay between using the new flight modes together, should you want to.
And yes, there are more mounts now that can ride like dragons! No one disputing this either. I donât think this is a bad think as a design goal. The current implementation, leaves some things to be desired.
Objectively speaking.
Yes, I am agreeing with you, without focusing on âwhat dragon riding was/isâ because thatâs not something Iâm even discussing. DR is a feature debuted in DF. Fact. Skyriding is the same feature, reworked for TWW. Fact.
Really not arguing anything different.
No, it was done because nomeclature usually changes to maintain thematic integrity, during any epansion development cycle. This is not the first time a feature has been reworked and reused. Garrisons > Order Halls > Covenants.
All different versions of the same feature, designed to be a âplayer housingâ environment without actually being player housing. They want it to thematically function within the expansionâs theme, so thatâs why Garrisons donât look/function like order halls/covenants, but occupy pretty similar design space, and why we abandoned using those systems, rather than continuing to use them in future expansion content.
Blizzard even breaks them so the rewards they offered become legacy, or grandfathered, as we like to call it.
And yes, mechanically, dragon riding and sky riding are identical.
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No, it isnât. They are different things and are treated differently.
He is, otherwise heâd have to have a discussion based on merits.
Can I have your gold? Thanks
Itâs actually not, it is quite literally the lowest of low bars. You quest to max, you get flying account wide and for free.
There is no injustice, and nobody needs to use steady flight to unlock steady flight, calm down.
Moused and trying to use disabled folks as a cudgel to insult others for not agreeing with them. Name a more iconic duo.
Ok, that would be a difference in acquisition. The dynamic flying mode is the same.
Much like how we used to get pokey flying at 60% speed and level 70, and then at some point that was changed to what, 150% speed, and level 20? Something like that. It may have changed again recently.
Steady flying, mechanically speaking, is the same as it was in TBC. Just as Dynamic flying is the same.
I agree with you 100%.
You know, Iâm starting to think Blizzard managements petty, hurtful, injustice might actually be a good thing because it has me actively searching for other forms of recreation to spend my time and money on after my account expires. So, this might just be the âkick in the pantsâ I need to walk away from the game and do bigger and better things
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Yes, there is a difference in how players will approach the same activity, a âdifference in acquisition.â I am in agreement with you.
One step further: this is problematic for players like me who wish to see the game preserved.
Another step further: New players are going to be ushered through the same dragon isles content we all just did. Wont get the mount quest to do, wonât get the skillups from collecting glyphs (not until they hit 70 and starting cruising around TWW zones).
Last step: This is representative of inconsistent game design, which is incongruent with long-term value propositions offered by any game type (or the design of large scale games such as MMORPGs).
Game design one may objectively determine is bad, or worse, than the prior state of design.
I donât agree with any of this, other than Garrisons might be considered akin to player housing.
Garrisons were unique to each player. Order halls and covenants were not. Not sure why you think they are the same feature. Paladins couldnât use the rogue order hall, for example, but they could pick a covenant.
And besides, skyriding is the same thing as Dragonriding. Yes, acquisition changed, mostly as a result of how legacy content is handled, and Dragonflight being moved to the âdefaultâ leveling experience.
The riding skill / mode is unchanged mechanically.
See you in game 
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Dynamic flight is, what, 10 times faster than original flight?
If it is extending sub time, its not because it is slowing down traversal.
You donât agree theyâve reused and reworked features before? Care to explain why you donât think they do?
You understand that âreworking the featureâ is why Garrisons and order halls arenât the same feature, right? Reworking the concept of Garrisons from Wod into the feature that is Order halls for Legion, necessarily meant changes such as⌠no longer player individual, but class individual. Still go on a long quest chain of follower nonsense and personal development that only affects you (while at the order hall).
Seeing other druids in your order hall by default would be the same as if they had you seeing other players in your garrison, by default. That was an optional feature (players could come to your garrison) but yeah, youâre right. The ORIGINAL feature was more personal, more akin to player housing.
Again, in agreement with you. What are you arguing about?
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No you wonât, unless they get rid of Pathfinder.
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This example tells me youâve never dealt with horses before.
If a horse doesnât want to move⌠ITS NOT GOING TO MOVE.
They can be very stubborn animals.
(But if this is in terms of travel speed⌠you can slow down on dynamic so that already exist without a mode swap)
What do you mean? Its all pure objective facts 
Irrefutable even!
We are not in agreement, though. I thought that was pretty well established.
If one was to say that garrisons, order halls, and covenants are just an instanced place you go to do activities/receive quests, sure, they are the âsameâ.
But Iâm not trying to talk about those, because itâs very different than Dragonriding â Skyriding. This is a mode of flying that is mechanically the same thing in both DF and TWW. The main difference is that nearly all flying mounts can use it, hence the name change.
The fact that Dynamic flight acquisition is changing is irrelevant. We used to have to level to 70 and buy basic flying, which was 60% speed, then epic flying which was 280% speed, then cold weather flying for northrend etc.
Flying Speeds and acquisition have changed over the years, much like leveling has changed from sequentially through each expansion to âpick an expansion to levelâ.
The point is that acquisition of the skill doesnât change what dynamic flying is.
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So dang true nowâŚ
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I went over this with them I donât know how many times.
You arenât going to enjoy their reply to this.
Right, Similar, but different things can have different degrees of similarity. DR to SR represents pretty minute changes compared to the changes they made to the borrowed power system for Order halls and Covenants.
Garrison Borrowed Power was done very very well, in that anything the garrison gave you that affected your power, was balanced around being a personal, open world or garrison follower based-power.
They were tuned to provide additional power, but not to an exploitative degree.
Where as Order halls were literally the centerpiece of your artifact weapon journey. You spend the first chunk of your order hall time acquiring the one weapon you will use for the entire expansion, because you are going to make it stronger in a way that resembles talent trees, rather than something like an enchantment or gem.
Having so much linear growth for your artifact weapon, allowing it to be the main weapon you use in an expansion without any weapon drops (still canât believe anyone signed off on that). But yeah, Order halls and Garrisons are different versions of the same design space, or feature, as we commonly call it.
âDesign spaceâ refers to the potential for a feature. The Design space of Skyriding includes the same functionality as dragonriding, minus the parts of the dragonriding experience theyâve removed/broken, and with the addition of other components of the feature, aka âSwitch Flight Style.â
Steady riding occupies the same design space of dragonriding/skyriding (The design space of 'flight travel from point A to point B), but that doesnât mean they are exactly the same. They share similarities and some aspects are the same, while other aspects are different, objectively better, and some aspects are different, objectively worse.
If someone cares about the way it was before, and enjoyed playing it that way, then it does matter they changed it. If your target audience is ânew playersâ and you are not designing your game with regard to veterans or players with prior experience in previous content, then you wouldnât care about making changes and all changes would be irrelevant, cuz the players you are making them for, havenât even played the game yet.
Which is where my advocacy comes from. Games preservation is a growing concern in 2024, as companies shift further from physical media and spend more energy on âgames as a live service.â
I wonât get too far into it, but the preservation aspect of gaming is the only way gaming continues to stay relevant. If you canât play a game because the company making it no longer offers a way to do so, thatâs a problematic thing for everyone who wants to play a game.
Same goes for aspects of a game that change. When something gets removed, people rightfully expect it to be brought back. You have every right to design whatever game you want to, and people have the right to avoid it like the trashfire it is.
When you adhere to sound design concepts that yield solid gameplay experiences, those experiences become evergreen in their own right. People play Super Mario Bros for NES in 2024, and stream it on Youtube.
Theyâre making money on a 39 year old game the company who created it, no longer supports physically. So⌠Value isnât determine by the devs, itâs determined by the players.
Always.
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