Locking stable flying but not skyriding to pathfinder is stupid

[Shadybolt-thrall]

@Derkz-westfall

One of the things often lost here is the importance of customer service.

A bunch of Karens voicing their “opinions” doesn’t mean that they need to be taken seriously. Unless you are referring to the number of people who use people’s disabilities as a rhetorical tool as a way to cudgel people, because a conversation can and should be about how disgusting THOSE people are!

Not the ones who calmly and repeatedly point out simple facts and realities.

@Derkz-westfall

This isn’t a group of people showing up to yell into the void of a rando fan website.

Correct. It is a bunch of gamer-Karens who have spent the majority of the past nearly 20 years turning the official forums into the farce it is today.

@Derkz-westfall

That is the ONLY reason for anyone to be here.

Not really. It is mostly for regulars to have conversations with the odd people who act in good faith, and then a place to pay “bread and circus” to the trolls (the aforementioned Karens for the most part).

@Derkz-westfall

We don’t have to fly… you don’t have to respond to posts. You don’t even have to read em. I refuse to let this company have any more of my money. I refuse to sit here quietly, watching them make the sorts of mistakes that I as a long time player recognize as incongruent with any form of World of Warcraft.

From an accessibility standpoint, from a customer service standpoint, from a business standpoint… from a common sense standpoint: Blizzard misstepped with this one, big time.

Nope. Flying, or rather the ability to engage in the least amount of player-to-player and player-to-activity engagement in the open world, has been the most damaging thing to World of Warcraft for its entire lifespan.

Compromises have been tried but folks didn’t like them. So instead, they decided to nuke the forums. And turn them into this farce and facade of “discourse” when … nothing except “your way or the highway” is enough.

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Blizzard did the right thing, and has made a very reasonable compromise… that none of you can refute. Which is why ya’ll resort to name calling, sock puppeting, ad hominem, strawmanning people, and outright bigotry and ableism in order to try to bludgeon enough people to have it your way.

Grow up. Get a hobby, a real one. Learn… knitting, or make your own game. Maybe then you’d feel something real in your life for the first time ever.

@Tiffany-ravencrest

Well yes but if everyone agreed it wouldn’t be 1200 pages long. Several people would state the problem, the rest would just click “likes”. The reason it is long is that others disagree, then the debates started.

That shows it is a divided issue, not a settled issue.

This and other threads like this is as long as they are simply because folks object to objective reality. Instead preferring memes, trolling, and using disabled people as a rhetorical tool … for fun.

One could have a sane and sensible conversation about it, but none of the folks who keep behaving like the user you are responding to are interested in that. They are literally just here to do said meme-spamming, trolling, and using disabilities as a rhetorical cudgel.

[Lovelight-sargeras (Lovelight)]

@Nayaga-lightbringer

Steady flight is used for accessibility,

Is it though? Is playing the game on the ground an issue?

Or more accurately, why is playing on the ground an issue now, when it wasn’t for 20 years?

For the record, Blizzard should lock skyriding behind the campaign too.

[Moused-cairne (Moused)]

@Lovelight-sargeras

For the record, Blizzard should lock skyriding behind the campaign too.

It should be if they put Steady Flight behind a Pathfinder then Dynamic should be behind the same pathfinder …What is good for the Goose is good for the Gander.

[Aeshma-khadgar]

The speed of steady flight is just fine for those that prefer it. No need to get rid of it when you have an option that works for you. Not sure why you would even want to alienate players that are happy with it.

[Lovelight-sargeras (Lovelight)]

Yes, that is what I just said.

[Derkz-westfall]

@Lovelight-sargeras

I’m failing to see the step backwards. We can unlock steady flying on launch day, if you can schedule time to play for the 8 or so hours I might take to complete the campaign story.

We used to have to wait the better part of a year for a content patch that made it possible to unlock steady flying.

1. Follow me here. Monday prior to patch, no one has any issue cuz feature is actually pretty great. Tuesday, suddenly issues everywhere as feature is suddenly a different feature with all these changes making it a… worse feature. That’s a step backward.

2. Unlocking Pathfinder isn’t a compelling game design element anymore. Particularly alongside a brand new level 10 feature called… ‘skyriding.’ Thought that was pretty obvious.

3. Pathfinder was debuted as a compromise between the designers’ vision of WoD (no flying) and the players expectations of having flight travel just like they’ve had with TBC, WOTLK, CATA, MOP. It’s called a precedent. You don’t design your game, suddenly break precedent, without doing your players a disservice. You CAN break precedent suddenly… and then you Helldivers 2.

@Shadybolt-thrall

A bunch of Karens voicing their “opinions” doesn’t mean that they need to be taken seriously.

Whether or not anyone is taken seriously will be borne out in the sales numbers and the continued forums activity.

Whether or not anyone fits your opinions of a karen is probably beyond the scope of topic relevance.

@Shadybolt-thrall

Blizzard did the right thing, and has made a very reasonable compromise…

Blizzard made a feature of the game functionally worse. Blizzard could have avoided doing that and it would have been a better experience moving forward, for anyone engaging in dragon isles content, which is now the intended level 10-70 experience.

Calling people karens and shouting them down so you can inject some level of anti flying rhetoric… classic.

[Kiyoko-ravenholdt]

Yeah the only thing remotely right in that is that it was faster to swap last week.

[Lovelight-sargeras (Lovelight)]

@Derkz-westfall

It’s called a precedent. You don’t design your game, suddenly break precedent, without doing your players a disservice.

This is not universally true. Change doesn’t automatically = bad.

[Derkz-westfall]

When change doesn’t turn out worse for things, it’s when someone put forth the effort to do something in a way that is superior, completely removing any negatives the change would cause.

Does this come even close to that? Be honest.

[Kiyoko-ravenholdt]

Yeah, now I can use whatever flying mount that I want for whichever type of flying I want. The only thing that is in any way worse is that it used to be 1.5s to switch flight styles and it is now longer, compared to significant improvements for mount options for both of the flight styles.

Also, nothing about this breaks precedent anyway, pathfinder is still filling the same role.

[Lovelight-sargeras (Lovelight)]

@Derkz-westfall

Does this come even close to that? Be honest

Isn’t avoiding a mandatory wait time of 6-9 months an improvement?

I just don’t see the issue with playing grounded for the 8 hours or so it will take to complete the campaign.

And I’ll restate for the record, Blizzard should gate skyridung behind the campaign as well.

[Nayaga-lightbringer (Nayaga)]

@Lovelight-sargeras

@Nayaga-lightbringer

Steady flight is used for accessibility,

Is it though?

I think so and so does Ion.

BlizzCon | The War Within: Deep Dive Panel | World of Warcraft

[Gabitha-nagrand (Gabitha)]

If you all put as much effort into playing this game as you all do complaining about the content and mechanics of this game you all be world 1st mythic raid clearers.

[Derkz-westfall]

@Kiyoko-ravenholdt

Yeah, now I can use whatever flying mount that I want for whichever type of flying I want.

Pretty sure that was a checkbox on a spreadsheet for each mount. That was probably completely separate from any other changes they made.

@Kiyoko-ravenholdt

The only thing that is in any way worse is that it used to be 1.5s to switch flight styles and it is now longer, compared to significant improvements for mount options for both of the flight styles.

Also, nothing about this breaks precedent anyway, pathfinder is still filling the same role.

Pathfinder, the feature itself, broke precedent from the 4 expansions that came before it. TBC, WOTLK, CATA, and MOP all gave you access to flying based on level and gold spent. The entire reason pathfinder exists is because the devs thought that it was a good idea to break precedent and have an expansion without flying.

6 months in the player backlash forced them to add flying and come up with some RP about how it was ‘a change of design intent’ when it was really driving concurrents sub downward. Bottom line always motivates. So now we have Pathfinder.

Little did anyone know the DF team would release such an amazing update that would be so good, Blizzard would accidentally ruin it completely.

[Derkz-westfall]

If you understood how empty an achievement that really is… World 1st raider of what? Pick an expansion and name a fight to impress me with. Did you world’s 1st mimi and get a mount in same run?

Cuz that might move the needle for me.

Dood. If I could spent as much time in game, playing activities with meaningful value in them… before blizzard drops a patch that makes the game unplayable while we wait for an expansion?

You’re right. I wouldn’t be here. Thanks for agreeing about the poor direction the design team continues to take this game. Thank you for confirming my decision no to buy TWW or any more game time!

[Kiyoko-ravenholdt]

@Derkz-westfall

Pathfinder, the feature itself, broke precedent from the 4 expansions that came before it. TBC, WOTLK, CATA, and MOP all gave you access to flying based on level and gold spent.

Which broke precedent from Vanilla and not having any flying. Though if you want to have to purchase steady flight at max level, per character, instead, I’ll wholeheartedly support that change.

@Derkz-westfall

Little did anyone know the DF team would release such an amazing update that would be so good, Blizzard would accidentally ruin it completely.

No clue what this is referring to.

[Lovelight-sargeras (Lovelight)]

@Nayaga-lightbringer

I think so and so does Ion.

Steady flight is an accessibility option with respect to sky riding.

Steady flight is not an accessibility option with respect to playing the game on the ground.

If it was, we would have heard about this outside of talk about TWW.

[Nayaga-lightbringer (Nayaga)]

@Gabitha-nagrand

If you all put as much effort into playing this game as you all do complaining about the content and mechanics of this game you all be world 1st mythic raid clearers.

No matter how much time and research I put into the game, I will never be doing mythic raid clears. Not everyone has the skills or ability to do this. That lies at the heart of this flying debate. Not everyone can do Skyriding as well as you and never will.

[Shadybolt-thrall]

@Derkz-westfall

Whether or not anyone is taken seriously will be borne out in the sales numbers […]

Precisely.
And DF was an unmitigated success. An expansion that did not have the extreme downsides of the convenience tool ya’ll want. They now know how to handle flying moving onwards; push DF/SR to the forefront, and leave TBC flying only as an option for those who want it or those who can’t engage in Skyriding.

Still doesn’t mean that players need flying to do the campaign, aka. to play the more bare-minimum of the game. Which is why flying isn’t a requirement, and thus the topic of accessibility is irrelevant. No matter however much ya’ll keep dehumanizing disabled people.

@Derkz-westfall

Blizzard made a feature of the game functionally worse. Blizzard could have avoided doing that and it would have been a better experience moving forward, for anyone engaging in dragon isles content, which is now the intended level 10-70 experience.

Calling people karens and shouting them down so you can inject some level of anti flying rhetoric… classic.

I’m calling people acting like Karens for Karens, yes. If you have an issue with that, I guess… go take it up with whatever manager you wanna try bringing it up to.

In regards to the question of flying though, they made it better, by introducing Dragonriding now Skyriding. Which is the default. And they now know how to build zones and continent that are accessible from the ground but with impressive vistas from the ground and the sky.

But I guess Blizzard could’ve kept up with what they did in Dragonflight and wait over a year to provide TBC flying. Which is what they did in Dragonflight, which was an unmitigated success, and is also the thing you are saying that they should do.

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Mirrors do be a thing, if you have your own arguments held up back at your own face … make sure it is at least a reflection you can agree with.

[Cowvenent-area-52]

@Kiyoko-ravenholdt

Removing the straight-line travel and lack of gravity and constant speed would turn steady flight into slow skyriding, so there’d be no point

Is that really the problem though? Most of the complaints I’ve seen are about:

1. AFKing in the air, and
2. Looting while mounted

Both of those should be relatively easy to fix, I would think. But we don’t actually know why Blizzard is locking steady flight, so we don’t even know what the problem is.