lol. Strawmanning goes on a lot in these threads.
Literally that side has NO valid argument to make to defend PF in its current form.
Ion has demeaned it enough that its of NO consequence in the game literally AT ALL.
AH prices wont even drop a copper by the time steady flight can be achieved…and there is no other VALID reason for it existing at this point.
False arguments are all they have, and that includes Ion and anyone at blizzard defending this current incarnation of PF
Maybe you should read the original comment to which I replied before you jumped on this convo, eh?
After you’ve done that, feel free to reply to this comment 
Oh, and in advance, I know this is GD. But let’s not split hairs as to the obvious intended meaning.
With steady flight you didn’t use to have to. I have everything bound to the NUM pad, and i could make it so I didn’t need my mouse.
I have rested well for DF story put me to sleep.
That is why we fight for the legacy of TBC normal flying to be free from the shackles that is Patchfinder!
Your analogies don’t work because WoW does fit them - except at the beginning of an expansion. The old logic behind pathfinder (keeping people on the ground for a while) no longer applies.
Blizzard is basically saying to these people, “ We will cater to your needs except at the beginning of an expansion when the game is the most exciting and fun, for reasons we won’t explain.” It’s nonsensical.
Split hairs…what they said and you did are miles apart. They in no way said they can’t use a keyboard and mouse. At the very least you made a wild exaggeration.
Don’t listen to anyone who says in any way that you should not play WOW. More power to you.
Yes, that is an option. Or, perhaps better yet, eliminate Pathfinder all together and allow BOTH forms of flight for all players equally on day one of the expansion. If it’s so important to the developers that we all PROVE that we explored the game, then make an Achievement that rewards a mount, pet, or piece of nice armor. All players seem to respond gleefully to being rewarded with something special at the end of a long and complicated task.
I don’t think an important game FEATURE such as flying should ever be held hostage as a “reward”, any more than say having a bank to store all your junk is locked behind a 4 week quest you need to complete.
Clarify your definition of “fit”.
Are you referring to subjective attractions towards the game, or are you referring to physical accessibility?
If a game is physically inaccessible to a player, it doesn’t fit them, if your definition is the latter from the above.
If your definition is the former, the reality is that the player must find a game that suits the latter before the former.
Basically, I can love soccer with all my heart. But I can’t sprint, I’m not gonna make the team. It might be a better idea for me to pursue a game like chess. This is conceptually no different.
You’re the one that used the word in your post originally. What did you mean by fit?
it can be argued that, by providing the option for ground mounts, they are catering to the needs, but not the wants. One does not “need” flying to get pathfinder, but a lot WANT to be able to fly, in their preferred way, from the get go.
I know some of my arguments might come across as lawyerese, but last I checked, that is what Ion is/was at one point.
I meant the former
EXACTLY.
It was for exploring on the ground BEFORE we got FLIGHT.
Ion himself destroyed that narrative in DF when we go FLIGHT on day one.
PF serves no VALID purpose anymore… Period.
Yes, if you’re given two choices. Die or die by torture. You’re being forced to make a decision.
I keep using extreme examples because there are those among us that face this as an extreme example. And the worst part is there is quite literally BO REASON to lock any type of flying behind anything anymore. Especially if you’re going to give access to speed blitz from the beginning. Argue all you want, I see all your points. It’s just none of them are better than the fact this is an arbitrary decision made with little thought.
And anyone who looks at it unobjectively will clearly see that Blizzard has absolutely no reason to lock steady flight if Dynamic isn’t locked. Plain and simple, go ahead and push your agenda, because 85-90% if the players will choose to use the new system. But at least you’re not locking everyone else out of playing the game how they want.
Because you want to know why Elden Ring and Baldur’s Gate 3 exploded? You can do whatever you want however you want whenever you want. With only endgame and story bosses gated. You were actively encouraged to play this game you spent your hard earned money on however you felt like. You want to romance a vampire, heck fricken yea here’s a walkthrough on how to do it. You want to fight the hardest boss in the game at level 1… I don’t see why you would but have at it. You spent your money on my game, go enjoy it however makes you happy.
Forcing your players to play a game (especially an open world MMORPG) the way you envisioned it isnt good business. It wouldn’t be so bad if solo content was up to par and I could just solo an Expac if I get behind. But Blizz constantly proves it doesn’t care about their solo community… Because this is an MMO. Why tf are you playing solo.
I’m not saying it’s a bad thing, but all WoW is anymore is trying to catch the lightning that games like DOTA 2 or LoL or CS2 have. They want an esport scene that will make them money. Like I said, not bad. But why? You’ve already shown you don’t know how to handle that kind of esport (looking at you HotS) and you’ve spent 20 years BEING THE MMORPG to play. Titles tried but WoW was it when it came to MMORPG. And the worst part is that those other games still offer more freedom in how you can play than WoW doesn anymore. Yea DOTA has a meta, the heroes that are good and their builds. But you can still play whatever hero however you want and have fun. You just won’t gain rank.
But I digress because I’m losing the thought, if you step back and look at WoW’s recent decisions in game. WoD/Legion was the last time WoW had redeeming factors that were worth overlooking the stuff you didn’t like. Now they are working towards getting everyone to play how they want to play. And that’s not what WoW has ever been. FMA ince Vanilla, the best players have been able to poke holes in the game design and come up with amazing stuff. Vanilla,TBC,Wrath are the glory days for a reason. And you have to respect Blizzard evolving. But at what point do we have to admit the Activision (and now Microsoft) merger were the beginning of the end of the game the OG’s fell in love with
And to be clear, cool. Do what you want with your game. But, as those of us that came up begin to say good bye and not come back. The atmosphere, community and even esport scene are going to stop resembling WoW and slowly evolve into a mirror of some other game that found lightning by doing it’s own thing.
Let’s just state things clearly. The situation is we have people that have been playing WoW for years who had no problem with physical accessibility with regard to mounts (ground or steady flying). Then a new mechanic was introduced, skyriding, that they do have problems with, for reasons of motion sickness or age or other limitation/disability. These are existing customers, many of whom played for many years.
Now Blizzard is limiting the use of the type of flight that does work for them, but not the new skyriding flight. The old rationale for pathfinder (keeping people on the ground, slowing them down, to make them stay subbed longer or whatever) no longer applies since skyriding is available for those able to use it. But for some reason, they insist on continuing this pathfinder junk and taking away steady flying.
Is your position really that since this new feature exists, WoW no longer “fits” them and therefore they should just stop playing? Even though there’s a very simple solution available that would allow them to continue enjoying the game they’ve played for many years, as well as no justification whatsoever from Blizzard for taking it away?
I would like to weigh in here.
I worked for 35 years in corporate America, mostly in customer service at different levels. The first rule of thumb was always “the customer is right” - which translated means:
1.) take the customer seriously, and treat them with respect
2.) Do your best to either accommodate them, or compromise so that both parties are happy
3.) sometimes you just need to suck it and do what’s right for the CUSTOMER
I see none of that with the Blizzard Games management.
As for locking TBC Flying (aka Steady Flight) behind Pathfinder - that is not necessary, it’s unfair to players (customers!) who NEED to use that form of flight, and it very well may be a violation of the “Americans with Disabilities Act” in the United States (ADA).
And ironically, according to THAT side of the argument in all of these related threads, there arent even that many players in WoW who NEED old flight in the first place. Such a miniscule number that it doesnt matter if they get steady flight day one or not. lol.
Its bad enough to have to hear the INVALID arguments but then to have to listen to arguments that literaly contradict themselves WHILE trying to keep straight face…and THEN having the person presenting it actually keeping a straight face as if THEY really believe the illogical nonsense theyre pushing…well, Im just so happy for the ignore feature in here so I can choose to not see it at all, lol
PF previously could be argued that it was for exploration on the ground prior to getting flight.
Ion killed that argument himself the first day of DF release with Dragonriding.
PF has no valid use now except to annoy and punish players who need to use steady flight…as per IONS OWN WORDS…“for accessibility”…
So I wanted to say a lot more, but realized I gotta get going so I’ll just cut the chase haha. (I’d like to follow up later, if I remember…)
‘Checkmate. In terms of a fair debate and making a good point, this is a good one. It’s a really bad look for a company to alienate its existing customer base. Tbh I didn’t take you in good faith at first, but I take that back now. Now that I read this, it seems almost crazy to me that static flying hasn’t always been an option the moment dragon riding was introduced. Maybe just lack of business foresight that likely won’t be repeated?’
At any rate, again, sorry I misinterpreted at first, and that’s a very fair point
It likely would be if Blizzard did not provide any other options, and made it DR or quit". But as long as there is one option that does not require DR to get though the game to earn steady flight, any lawyer (coughIoncough) can claim they are in compliance with the ADA.
It’s a game. Ground running or gliding isn’t ‘torture’. That’s another buzzword along with “forced” and “punished”.
Highly doubtful.
I’ll show you how little thought it actually was.
It’s a 3 minute segment. I highly encourage you to watch it.
https://youtu.be/xPqZ7LSGjSU?t=2044
But how many complained about the game being too hard and demanded a difficulty setting?
They never complied with those requests either.
That’s not a fair comparison as wow gates you based on level and gear.
You aren’t going to be able to solo a mythic raid. You aren’t flying period at level 1. You aren’t going to be able to jump into heroic raid with normal dungeon gear.
You can’t do current xpac quests while being below the intro level.
It’s an mmo, not an open world rpg. Completely different games and styles.