Locking stable flying but not skyriding to pathfinder is stupid

Community General Discussion
2561

Well when you ignore 90% of comments and just focus on the last word of it that is what you get. You keep focusing on just one thing, df is better than sf because it makes you engage more. you are ignoring that better is subjective in a game and that is my whole point.

Literally my whole point is that most of the time letting players play the game the way they want is better. It’s not my fault that your argument can’t overcome a simple premise. Prove the premise wrong, don’t be grumpy that this simple premise applies to the situation.

I mean you do the same bs here

They are not asking for people who use DF to not be able to. They just want to be able to fly as well and don’t see a reason not to have that OPTION!

4 Likes
2562

I can agree with most things you said. The only things I’d say anything is that this has very little to do with FOMO, except the parts that is self-inflicted by the people in this thread for an example. And that limiting DF behind the campaign is fine … but would serve no practical purpose and would just be an arbitrary decision meant to appease people who shouldn’t be appeased.

The idea of lending credence to the folks who keep using folks’ disabilities as a rhetorical cudgel is… not a good idea. So I think it genuinely would just make things worse for everyone included to even attempt to appease folks who have been behaving like these people have for the past few weeks.

2563

Your entire argument is “I want the choice to do the thing I want. Choice is always good, therefore the thing I want is also good, and all other viewpoints are invalid”.

Again, trying to stay on target where this started, nobody is going to quit over an objective improvement in how Blizzard is handing steadyflight in TWW.

Adding Dynamic flight in Dragonflight was an improvement over the previous pathfinder where no flight was allowed for nearly a year.

The ability to unlock steady flight day 1 in TWW is an improvement over waiting nearly a year as we had to in Dragonflight.

I get you want to fly minute 1 with no restrictions. Great. Blizzard feels that the mechanics of steady flight is something they would rather we not have access to, at least for the first campaign play through.

I think they have a reasonable argument.

If you want to talk about that, sure. Let’s do that. But please stop stripping this down to “but choice is better, therefore the only valid opinion is mine, because choice is good”

I’m sure people would love the “choice” to do (or not do) a lot of things in this game.

1 Like
2564

I mean, I disagree about FOMO. I think it is everything here. And instead of people just saying that outright, they use the rhetorical cudgels because they think it makes a stronger argument, and it might bully or shame blizzard into doing what they want.

I say that FOMO is a valid argument because it is at least honest, and true.

I just think the logic doesn’t make sense, that people who have been playing the game for years and years, inclusive of those long “pathfinder” time gates, are all of a sudden going to refund or quit, when they no longer have to wait to fly.

It makes way more sense that they feel FOMO about “not being able to fly” when others will be, even if it is only for the first 8-10 hours of gameplay. The rest is just the framing of different arguments to try to rectify that problem.

1 Like
2565

I think I can concede to that. It is just weird to bring FOMO into it though since it is entirely self-inflicted and caused by this and other threads like it.

Putting TBC afking/flying behind a bare minimum where it can and does make sense, and comparing that to the idea of folks having FOMO because they can fly but choose not to seems… ridiculous to me.
Flying is not required in TWW so they aren’t missing out on anything. So it is entirely caused by this perception people have in this and other threads like it, and somehow that relates back to the actual decision itself?

I can’t say I fully buy that. But I will say I get what you are saying, and I can concede to that it is a reasonable interpretation … just not one I share, even though I can concede to it.

1 Like
2566

I don’t want to do this actually…so that is just flat out wrong. I think people who hate DF (not me) or just can’t use it should have the option of SF and see no real reason to not include it. That’s it. An option for people who want it as long as there is no downside to others or the overall game. No other point to be made really.

I also never said it wasn’t an improvement…I actually mentioned that it is an improvement multiple times to people claiming Blizzard is being cruel…so no clue why you are still bringing that up.

No idea how many times it will take for you to actually read this but…I DON’T WANT THIS FOR MYSELF.

I have been trying to talk about this the whole time but you keep throwing weird things out there trying to side track it. How does allowing this hurt the game? How is it better to not have SF in the game from the start than to just allow it? Tell me how it is a better design if you believe it is. You keep saying it is, and that it is more engaging but you ignore the fact that having the option stops no one from using PF.

Let me put it do you a different way. Does having easy, medium, and hard modes in a game make the hard mode worse? Does it stop people who like a challenge from going there? That is the crux of this because you keep saying DF is better, but have not once shown that having the option for SF hurts anyone who prefers DF.

How does having the option hurt the game? If we both agree that in general

Then you need to have a reason that adding this option would be bad to counter it…right? If options are almost always good, then the only time it makes design sense to not have them…is when it is actually bad. So how is it bad to have that option?

Right now Blizzards argument is that DF is more fun/engaging, and that until mastered SF can do things like land on mobs and make questing cheesable…ie you can skip a ton more. That is what they said…not me. That is valid for a DF vs SF…but not for having the option to do either.

Unless they saw everyone stop using DF) and en masse swap back over to SF and cheese everything in dragonflight…in which case that would be an argument to not have SF at all…not just behind one pass through the campaign.

So what is your argument for the OPTION to use it from the start being bad. Not being something you don’t like, or won’t use, or don’t enjoy…because you will still have the option to DF. How is it bad for the game design to allow people who hate DF to use SF?

(edited typos of PF to DF, no idea how I did that.

3 Likes
2567

Anything “missed” by not flying during the leveling process can likely be seen once they can fly in their preferred way.

1 Like
2568

I get that FOMO is typically used in other contexts, but to me this all boils down to “I want to fly while leveling and I can’t, while those people can. Thats unfair. I don’t want to miss out on the fun.”

1 Like
2569

People need to get thought their heads just cause something CAN be done, does not mean it WILL be done by anyone, let a long a majority,

Right now I wish we could get a list of those who are CHOOSING to go by ground, just so some can ease up on their vitriol

2570

I mean…isn’t that a fair argument? If one side says they can’t do something while the other side can…and it would be very easy to let everyone do what they want…what is your argument against that? That people are whiners for not getting something Blizzard could easily give them? That doesn’t make sense, it’s just mean.

4 Likes
2571

Ok, I could have phrased that to say you want the choice for other people, rather than yourself. Fine.

My larger point still stands, that your argument is that the existence of choice is good, so any other argument that restricts choice is invalid, because if choice is good, then no choice is bad.

Regarding the rest, I have already articulated how steady flight allows people to effectively ignore the game world by hovering , flying over things, landing at the most opportune spot at the most opportune time etc.

I’m not sure why you think I’m sidetracking anything. You keep sidetracking things with your “choice is good, therefore other viewpoints are invalid” argument, or earlier when you trying to force me into answering your loaded questions with two prebuilt answers to choose from, and then chastising me for ignoring these arguments.

And a reminder that this started when I challenged the idea that anyone was going to quit over this, in the context that they used to wait nearly a year to fly, and now that is unlockable day 1 after 8-10 hours or so of gameplay.

I just don’t buy that argument at all.

2572

I have said numerous times that having DF gated behind the campaign, to be treated the same as SF, would be fair.

The rest is a strawman.

2573

No. Because the point is that they can. That’s the entire point.
However if a person’s personal physical conditions makes it so they cannot use Dragonriding/Skyriding, they use what methods exist. Which I already told you, and others, weeks ago.

I used the installation of an elevator where otherwise there would only be stairs available. To quickly summarise:

It isn’t ableist just because stairs exist. The methods and means that allow people to get around still has to be reasonable where and when those facilities exist. The reality is that not all staircases will have elevators and sometimes one has to walk to where an elevator does exist. In the case of TWW, that means doing the bare minimum of completing the campaign. As it is accessible per foot (aka. the ground).

You can complain about this all you want. Folks complain about literally anything … but a person’s ability to complain about something doesn’t automatically make that complaint a valid and applicable complaint.

If a person’s disabilities are so severe that one cannot complete the bare minimum of merely playing the game… then no type of flying or the like will be able to aid 'em where they need their ‘elevator’.

2574

That would be the people whom have difficulty with Skyriding. I think it’s far more common than people are willing to admit

4 Likes
2575

Correction, I have zero issues with sky riding, or at least none tied to disabiligyt or anything of that sort, yet I am choosing to go via ground.

2576

Yeah the assumptions that we do not enjoy using ground mounts is far from the truth. I too like to use ground mounts if possible. But at the same time I also would like to have the option to use TBC normal flying. For me I can adapt by using goblin gliders which I find more suitable for questing than worry about vigor with DR with short distances. Combined with grapple hook and shadow step Rogues have their ways of getting around rough terrain.

Hiking experience in real life in rough terrain paying off in a video game. Good times.

:sunglasses: :cowboy_hat_face:

:surfing_woman: :surfing_man:

2 Likes
2577

I’ve already stocked up on Goblin Gliders😀

2 Likes
2578

Yup.

But stay quiet about it because if we are having fun with it then you know who is coming around with that big fat nerf hammer around the corner.

:surfing_woman: :surfing_man:

4 Likes
2579

This is sadly true.

4 Likes
2580

How cuold they do so without hurting priests (levitate), Mages (slowfall), druids (flap), etc? There are other ways to slow down falling speed.