Locking stable flying but not skyriding to pathfinder is stupid

[Quivermethis-rexxar]

@Derkz-westfall

Why would players… backlash… if your design philosophy… was sound?

There is backlash no matter what they do. Which is why they focus on the majority.

You can’t please everyone, but you can please the majority.

@Derkz-westfall

After 20 years of playing this game, some of us would do a much better job than any of these guys. That’s the frustrating part

Then become a dev. Put in the time and work to be considered for the position of game design

The fact of the matter is they have all the statistics on their side. Sometimes they test things on live and notice they don’t do it next time.
Some xpacs, the feature only lasts for a patch or 2.
If it works, they figure out a way to implement further or evolve it.
The majority weren’t a fans of garrisons because of the seclusion. Which lead to order halls.

How many iterations did we see of mission tables?
The ap system?
Either cutting borrowed power or implementing it into talents or builds.

The majority enjoyed dragonriding. They expanded it to most other mounts → dynamic riding.
The majority didn’t care about pathfinder, but they didn’t like the lengths to unlock it… → cut most of the requirements and timegating.

@Derkz-westfall

Just do a better job. Be honest. Or, I don’t do business

Thats not how corporations work.
At least the blues are pretty transparent on here when they are working on hotfixes.

[Lovelight-sargeras (Lovelight)]

@Kaledin-uther

So which is better?

Which is better:

1. Wait nearly a year for the x.2 patch to allow the possibility of the pathfinder achievement to be completed, granting the ability to fly
2. Pathfinder is available to complete day 1 with zero time gate.

Blizzard went with #2, something players have been asking for for a decade. And now all of a sudden the game is Unplayable, discriminatory, illegal violation of the ADA, players will revolt and unsubscribe and refund the expansion, etc.

[Kaledin-uther]

@Lovelight-sargeras

Which is better:

1. Wait nearly a year for the x.2 patch to allow the possibility of the pathfinder achievement to be completed, granting the ability to fly
2. Pathfinder is available to complete day 1 with zero time gate.

Haha ok, silly but ok.

I have said the whole time that this is better than Dragonflight on the topic. They are moving in the right direction on it.

Now, your turn…and yes this is a silly way to have a conversation.

Which is more likely to make someone mad?

1. Allow steady and dynamic flight from the get go.
2. Lock steady flight behind the campaign.

[Antiman-bloodhoof]

@Lovelight-sargeras

Nobody is quitting over this.

Worst case might be asking for a refund on TWW and letting sub run out.

@Kaledin-uther

I ask again. Which do you think would piss off more players?

1. Allow steady and dynamic flight from the get go.
2. Lock steady flight behind the campaign.

Likely the first is the less apt to piss off more players, at least to the point of quitting.

@Lovelight-sargeras

Which is better:

1. Wait nearly a year for the x.2 patch to allow the possibility of the pathfinder achievement to be completed, granting the ability to fly
2. Pathfinder is available to complete day 1 with zero time gate.

Second is better, but sometimes things come in stages, like this time they open up PF to be earned day one, next time they could unlock both at the start and make PF cosmetic only reward wise.

[Derkz-westfall]

@Quivermethis-rexxar

There is backlash no matter what they do. Which is why they focus on the majority.

You can’t please everyone, but you can please the majority.

Which is why parsing it matters. Getting meaningful data from the noise is what people are supposed to do, if they want to use data in any meaningful way.

@Quivermethis-rexxar

Then become a dev. Put in the time and work to be considered for the position of game design

Only to be then told to tow the line, and contribute to an already toxic work environment? Maybe after this unionization takes root (1-2 years away still).

@Quivermethis-rexxar

Thats not how corporations work.

Some do. The ones with longevity, who have been in business longest.

@Kaledin-uther

Which is more likely to make someone mad?

1. Allow steady and dynamic flight from the get go.
2. Lock steady flight behind the campaign.

Right, when you have to phrase it like this to make your point on why something isn’t meeting expectations… I mean, it’s clearly #2.

[Lovelight-sargeras (Lovelight)]

@Kaledin-uther

Which is more likely to make someone mad?

1. Allow steady and dynamic flight from the get go.
2. Lock steady flight behind the campaign.

Is it going to make you and 7 other people bumping these threads with hyperbolic viewpoints mad? Yes sure.

The rest of the playerbase is not mad. I’ve said numerous times that Blizzard should just gate dynamic flight behind the campaign as well, because its not a big deal to play through the story 1 time before you can just cheese it and zoom zoom fly over everything.

[Lovelight-sargeras (Lovelight)]

@Antiman-bloodhoof

Worst case might be asking for a refund on TWW and letting sub run out.

Nobody is going to do this

[Estalayia-borean-tundra]

@Derkz-westfall

It’s how to treat someone with basic dignity and respect.

Respect is earned, not given.

@Derkz-westfall

You don’t need to buy into any crazy belief to acknowledge someone on the internet, claims to be disabled. It’s one of those ‘face-value’ claims, where you simply can’t validate or invalidate the claim without some level of investigation, which you probably aren’t going to do in the span of posting a comment.

Pertaining to forums, for this game specifically, I don’t really comment. I only comment, when somebody like you claims “believe everybody & don’t question them!”

@Derkz-westfall

If you want the person to disclose their medical history to you, so you can feel comfortable believing they might be disabled

No, I don’t need a full medical report. There’s just obvious cues in dialogue, in how we communicate with one another & your day to day life. This is BEYOND the forums!

@Derkz-westfall

Blizzard can be justified in making a change to the game?

Again, I have NO stance on the change. I’m not for NOR against. STOP boxing me in such a thing!

@Derkz-westfall

That’s a lot of hoops to go through to support someone

I support people fine without needing to be told “just believe me!”

@Derkz-westfall

If you catch someone in a lie, by all means, call them out.

Exactly what I’m doing to you. You are giving TERRIBLE advice to tell people to just up & believe people without question!

@Derkz-westfall

Believing people are liars, because they are posting about something on the internet

I didn’t say that. I said I won’t fully believe it until it’s been confirmed through other interactions (besides just forums posting) & getting to know the person more. I can only proclaim them as a “liar” if what that said is untrue.

It is possible to be NEUTRAL.

@Derkz-westfall

that’s a great way to avoid getting scammed, but I don’t think anyone is after your money or stuff, in this case

You can be scammed in other ways that doesn’t involve “money”.

Again, for the MILLIONTH time, I am NOT for NOR against ANY change in this thread.

I AM, however AGAINST advising people to just blindly believe anyone. Can we at least agree on that?

[Quivermethis-rexxar]

@Derkz-westfall

Which is why parsing it matters. Getting meaningful data from the noise is what people are supposed to do, if they want to use data in any meaningful way

Which is what they’ve been doing. Thus the changes I mentioned.

@Derkz-westfall

why something isn’t meeting expectations… I mean, it’s clearly #2

If that were the case, why was their cheering when ion mentioned it on stage?
People have no problem booing or let there be a resounding silence when they don’t agree with what is said. We’ve seen it a few times at blizzcons.

[Kaledin-uther]

@Derkz-westfall

Right, when you have to phrase it like this to make your point on why something isn’t meeting expectations… I mean, it’s clearly #2.

The phrasing of this whole conversation has gotten away from what it really should be. Which way is better for the user base. I think the percentage of people have an issue with the two options is a reasonable way to do that. Seems like one has some, and the other has none.

Everyone is arguing about how bad it is, or if it is some ableist thing, or just bad design or whatever. So then they all fight about who supports what the right way.

Who cares in the end?

It just comes down to which way is actually better for the user base. Steady flight from the get go does nothing bad to anyone. Steady flight only after the campaign messes with people who played for a very long time in a game with no twitch flying. Seems like an easier way to discuss the topic, and much more solution oriented and less about labeling people or starting fights.

[Estalayia-borean-tundra]

For the record, I hate Dragon/Sky Flying, and it should die in a fire.

That has NOTHING to do with my stance on just believing everything everybody says because they said so.

[Derkz-westfall]

@Lovelight-sargeras

Is it going to make you and 7 other people bumping these threads with hyperbolic viewpoints mad? Yes sure.

So, you don’t want to answer the question?

@Lovelight-sargeras

Nobody is quitting over this. If people played the last few expansions, where they had to wait nearly a year to fly, they’re not going to quit over being able to unlock flying day 1, upon completion of the campaign. 8-10 hours. Come on guys, lets be realistic.

It’s not a matter of ‘quitting.’ Most of the player base is unaware just how much of the game is available for free. With flight access at level 10/20, there is virtually nothing in the game that is off limits, and players will only be gated by the level requirements for raids, some dungeons, and some zones.

Basically, you can sit here and play the game at your own pace, warband access to all sorts of goodies, and you can do it for free. The point of view I am looking at this from: I can play for free, at my own pace, for as little or as long as I want. I never need to buy anything, pay for the game, I have a huge collection of stuff on my account already, many characters, level capped, twinks, ect.

There is so much for me to do if I don’t sub, don’t buy the expansion, and so much of it is actually evergreen (after being disposed of, ironically), the long term play value is incredibly high.

VS

Grind out another set of levels, toward another cap, do some more badly designed loot pinata raids, grind more grinds, pvp with no interest, get reset every few months, Watch any and all progress I make turn into the base game, once I have spent all that time.

Yeah, I know exactly why I am making this decision. It’s not to quit.

[Kaledin-uther]

@Estalayia-borean-tundra

For the record, I hate Dragon Flying, and it should die in a fire.

That has NOTHING to do with my stance on just believing everything everybody says.

Totally different conversation that I think should have never been injected into this. It was injected by a people being mad about a thing…then people being mad that those people are mad…then a whole lot of finger pointing.

It’s the forum equivalent of the elections, and it is a huge waste of time and animosity with people using emotional reacitons instead of just looking at the problem. Trolls really are the forum version of politicians at this point. Win on pedantic bs and angry dunking instead of talking about the actual problem.

[Derkz-westfall]

@Estalayia-borean-tundra

Respect is earned, not given.

This is going to be the only thing I disagree with. Respect is just given.

If it’s not, who earns it first? How? What do you even mean?

[Kaledin-uther]

@Lovelight-sargeras

Is it going to make you and 7 other people bumping these threads with hyperbolic viewpoints mad? Yes sure.

The rest of the playerbase is not mad. I’ve said numerous times that Blizzard should just gate dynamic flight behind the campaign as well, because its not a big deal to play through the story 1 time before you can just cheese it and zoom zoom fly over everything.

I honestly answered your question. Why won’t you answer mine? I feel like you are just injecting angry arguments here instead of looking for solutions or actually having a conversation.

Actually you know what…I guess you answered it. 7 to zero. Guess they should open steady flight to everyone. Thanks.

Sorry to be snarky but come on man. Just talk about the design decisions, stop fighting people for not liking something and debating who is more righteous. Honest debate is good. Trying to make others look bad is pointless.

[Lovelight-sargeras (Lovelight)]

@Kaledin-uther

Steady flight only after the campaign messes with people who played for a very long time in a game with no twitch flying.

How does this mess with people who “played a long time”? If they played a long time, they went nearly a year without any flying. Before that, they leveled each character grounded, and were only able to purchase a flying license upon reaching max level.

This isn’t “messing” with anybody. All this is are people who don’t like dynamic flight being jealous that they also can’t fly from minute one.

If Blizzard similarly gated dynamic flight behind the campaign, you all would be celebrating finally winning the flight wars, making blizzard cave to your decade long request to eliminate the pathfinder time gate.

The goalpost was moved, because they’re allowing dynamic flight to ‘go first’.

Blizzard should just lock both flights equally, behind the campaign and be done with it, so we don’t have to hear how the game is suddenly unplayable, or an ADA violation, or discriminatory, or causing massive refunds and subscription losses etc

[Catelan-aerie-peak (Catelan)]

@Mafic-emerald-dream

And flipping the switch on TBC normal flying is way easier than that filter.

Yes, yes it is! That’s because TBC flight (aka Steady Flight) already exists, and has been used by multiple MILLIONS of players world wide for seventeen YEARS!

Blizzard needs to start respecting their customers time & enjoyment and STOP this Pathfinder madness now!!!

[Solonà-moon-guard]

Welp, I have given what information I can in this thread. Hopefully it helps anyone who reads it. You guys have fun. I’m gonna spend the last two days of my sub haunting other threads. See you guys around!

[Derkz-westfall]

@Kaledin-uther

I honestly answered your question. Why won’t you answer mine?

I don’t think they are willing to prove themselves wrong. I mean, I am not trying to own anyone, but… yeah, I think that’s it.

No worries.

[Estalayia-borean-tundra]

There’s the basics of saying “hello, how are you?” (which is not the same as “respect”). And, depending on how that interaction goes, you can either continue engaging with the person or not. And, deciding not to engage with someone is NOT “disrespectful”, either.