Is this true for melee haste? Should be easy to test with a rend buff. I thought that was only true with global haste which would also affect spell casters (which the libram obviously doesnt).
We killed Rag before submerge this last MC raid…it was only our 4th time we have downed Rag I believe. It’s totally possible and it’s actually not that difficult if you stack ranged in your raid. I was very surprised how easy it was.
Haste still shortens the time between attacks.
It has value even before you gain an extra attack by simply increasing the frequency of the attacks you’d otherwise normally get.
Even if I get no extra attacks off, the threat per second I generate is greater when my attacks are every 1.62 seconds than every 2.5 seconds.
No. The enchant and arcanums (if I’m not mistaken) increase attack speed, not just melee attack speed.
Effects that only increase melee haste do not affected ranged attacks, such as Warchief’s Blessing.
It’s actually pretty close when I say down and did the math for a friend of mine. The 2% speed (2% damage really) was a little better for him, but he’s already really geared. If you’re undergeared, then the 8 agi is better. He’s a hunter. I’m assuming rogue scaling from agi would be better than the speed no matter what.
Ok, what is you definition of “attack speed” then?
I’m trying 3% haste on my twink warrior instead of constitution arcanums. I’m hoping it will be worth it for faster rage generation, better spell interruption, and shadowfang/lifestealing proc.
if on a hunter you are using a bloodseeker or slow crossbow on a non-clipped damage cycle, the reduction of time lost to aimed by using libram of rapidity makes it a decent option…
It is still worse than voracity in that instance, but only by about 1 dps (unless you have AMAZING gear, pushing 2k AP, 25% crit, etc).
If you have Rhok, rapidity does almost nothing for you because you’re running a clipped damage cycle which limits your autoshot anyway. It’s very difficult to tell, but my tests show quiver and enchants not affecting aimed shot cast time, while rapidfire and quick shots seem to.
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doesn’t kings and motw impact the +stat enchants though?
I mean, there’s no way it makes any sense when actually including these other factors.
Without touching the rest of this debate since I’m not a druid tank, I found that somewhat comical as well.
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You only really want haste enchants if you’re a hunter on Nightfall Proc boss debuffing duty.
Or for making a set of non-bop cloth “heirloom gear” to level alts, iirc 1% haste is like 33% haste for a lvl 1 (unless that wasn’t until TBC when it was converted into “haste rating”)
But mostly you just want to make an Arcanum of Rapidity and keep it banked for the quest where you turn it into a nature resist enchant for aq40. Especially while the librams are only a few silver and not 500g each.
My newly founded guild, with minimally experienced raiders and a raid team that never raided together before haven’t had a submerge since our first week in MC. We are relatively balanced, but have more melee overall.
Way more than the top 1% are easily avoiding submerge. We still have plenty of time on the clock before it’s even close.
Guys, keep in mind the majority of these comments were 3 months ago.
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Uh, why would you do that? 200 HP is far more important on a level 19 Twink than 2% Haste.
3% Haste is for TPS/DPS. Haste is terrible for PvP because you’re not always sitting and swinging on a target. Burst is more valuable in PvP than sustained DPS, as well, so even if you were sitting and hitting a target repeatedly, you’d want to hit harder in a single hit than hit faster.
Kings is a 1.1 multiplier to attributes, yes, but Mark of the Wild is just extra stats. It has no impact on the Arcanums of Voracity.
I think the only time our tank dies is when the floor does the trolling LoS on our healers. Otherwise, not even Garr can gib our MTs anymore.
I don’t understand why, at this stage of the game, mitigation via Librams is necessary. If you wanted the Fire Resist for easier Geddon/Ragnaros tanking (since having the FR on damage gear would be fantastic for threat), I kinda get it.
As far as DPS goes, I think druids are the only ones that might want Haste, but that’s only because no one else can get enough of it to justify it anywhere. Warriors scale too hard with Strength, tanking or DPS, and the AP affects every single hit, so its value isn’t diminished by down time variations.
maybee 1% of top guilds with stacked ranged raids maaayy be doing that on live… but … its not happening with you sport. or your guild.
classic.warcraftlogs com/zone/rankings/1000#boss=672&page=167
8,349 guilds have downed Rag in >3 min out of 9,022 logged kills.
92.5% of recorded kills are pre submerge. It’s the vast majority that are downing it before, not some small %.
Warriors are still up for debate tbh. This is the best way I’ve seen Rapidity vs Voracity described:
From Omak, one of the guys that created a widely-used Fury warrior spreadsheet:
Like have been discussed here a lot of times, haste doesnt have a lot to do with fight length, rather its different fight length intervals, where if the fight ended at that particular time haste would win, and if on that other, stength would win. The times haste win it produces more dps than the times strength win. Haste is already better at mc bis lvl gear.
To wrap your head around the intervals where it’s better or worse, try to visualise 2 people chopping wood, the first hit they do they do at the same time, and at this point strength lead and have cut deeper in the wood, then the one with haste does he’s second hit a little faster than the strength guy, the haste guy is now in big lead, an entire chop extra. But just a hair of time after the strength guy shop again aswell and takes the lead. The delay from haste guys 2nd chop to strength guy 2nd chop gets bigger and bigger for each chop until it reaches a delay of a full chop. At this point the haste guy lead with only a margin like in the sheet. This is because at this point even tho you now have reached the delay of a full swing the strength guy have also had enuf swings to almost make up for the extra swing that the haste guy got with he’s strength but not quite, the haste guy now starts ramping for 2 extra swings and the story repeat itself.
To simplify let’s say that haste is better 50% of the time a fight could end and strength 50% of the time. But the time haste win it’s more dps than the times strength win so haste is best. If you aren’t enchanting haste your doing it wrong
The strength shills just have interests in the Voracity market, it’s a conspiracy I tell you!
The thing is the shorter the fight the worse haste is compared to str. It doesnt scale as good as ap/str - haste is amazing when you hit a point where you are getting an entire extra swing, until that point ap/str scale better.
Haste does nothing for special attacks at all - no reduced gcd, no increased damage - str/ap does - Sure its a 50/50 if you are just auto attacking, but a warrior rarely does just that.
The same goes for druid tanks - agil (because it gives ap/crit/armor/dodge) > haste (unless you get enough of it) > dodge
I’m starting to feel bad for the guy.
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Like he said, it’s not fight length, but intervals. Take Shazzrah, a super short burst DPS fight.
Let’s say you get 10 MH attacks off with a Deathbringer and a 2.7s avg swing time from Flurry procs in a 29s Shazz kill. Let’s say your last auto attack with Voracity would land at 29.7s, but the boss would be dead, so it wouldn’t land. With Rapidity, your attack lands for an extra 1300 dmg auto attack crit. Now you just did 35k instead off 33.7k. 1296 DPS vs 1248 DPS.
23 STR will never increase your overall dmg and DPS by ~4% on an individual boss fight, it will always be less DPS gained when it “wins” vs when haste “wins”, though neither is a catch all enchant and 1 will always be better than the other based on the interval of time in which the fight ends. Haste has the higher ceiling compared to STR.
Its intervals for auto attack damage only. STR buffs both auto attack and special attacks. Haste affects auto attacks only.
Do the math to include str affecting special + auto attacks.
But that auto attack damage can easily be well over 1k damage, 23 STR would need to make up for that on fights where it “wins”. This doesn’t even account for things like HoJ/Windfury procs, or when that auto attack would also allow for a final Execute due to the extra rage gen, which could be a 4k+ damage difference on the fight (i.e. Rapidity and Voracity auto attack lands before boss dies, but Voracity is too late for your Execute to be the finisher vs another warrior that’s ahead on the swing timer and rage gen).
You don’t need to do any math to safely assume that 23 STR is not making up 1k-4k+ dmg on both specials and autos combined with the current fight lengths. If you do want some cursory evidence though, I sim at 1133.4 DPS with Voracity and STR to gloves vs 1112.6 DPS with no librams or glove enchant.
That is a difference in DPS of ~2%, when we’ve established that Rapidity can be anywhere from a ~4% DPS increase (extra auto attack on Shazz) to a ~12% increase (extra execute finisher vs missing final execute).