Both had use cases. Normal heroics had like a 187 ilvl requirement and gammas were ~210. People had to queue heroic to make the gamma cutoff, and still faced the same kick happy lot that scrutinize inferno groups for cheating their ilvl/pvp gear/etc. Normal heroics could become a pump-everything faceroll if you didn’t get an ICC dungeon. Some people enjoyed that kind of run. Would often see 6k+ gs, no common server in non-ICC heroics, thinking “why are you here?”. Then I remember fun is a thing. Gammas however, almost always required increased effort and synchronization, from a pug perspective, until Cata’s pre-patch broke everything and turned gammas into an utter steamroll.
This is not what I said.
I clearly stated that since LFR is another difficulty, it should be treated equally, sharing a lockout with Normal and Heroic. Misconstruing my statements to fit an agenda is misleading and does not address the core issue. The goal is to ensure fairness and consistency across all raid difficulties, allowing players to choose the level of challenge that best suits their playstyle without being forced into multiple raid settings each week.
People have said, “LFR is optional” and or a “choice.” Well, so is Normal and Heroic raiding. So why should LFR not be treated equally? Making LFR share a lockout does not take away the option or choice, as you can still go do LFR if you so choose that option.
Maybe not, but you did say this about LFR though back in November.
This was before OP started using Chatgpt aswell. Moist hated the idea of LFR being added, believed it was never going to be added, so any idea from them about LFR should never be counted as serious.
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GDKP’s do heroic, not normals, this would have 0 effect
That’s a really bad lie. They do normals all the time in 25m. Anyone that has joined LFG chat can see it.
I mean the bad ones do i guess, I can’t imagine a normal only gdkp in cata, that would be so bad
This has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Let’s get back to the topic enough trying to constantly derail.
It’s almost like you want people to be stuck in lfr.
It’s ok to dabble in some harder bosses in normal mode despite not doing them all. If you get up to warmaster and quit thats called prog. And then you full clear lfr in the interim to make your prog slightly easier . It’s the same reason you prog heroic bosses and then go down to normal mode for the last two until you can clear it.
Your logic for weeks now makes no sense and you seem to want to keep GDKPs in business because people who need LFR are the ones buying gear.
If they had LFR gear there would be less whales to bother with them.
Just tell the truth it will set you free.
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The truth is they carry themselves as the best of the best, willing to do anything, but now are wanting to gate people off so they don’t have to do it. All it really boils down to.
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So you admit it happens and now try to downplay it? 
That is not the case.
While it’s true that players can currently use LFR to make progression easier, the proposed system of sharing a lockout between LFR and Normal/Heroic raids aims to streamline the raiding experience and promote a more balanced approach.
Importantly, sharing a lockout would not prevent players who are unable to clear the raid in Normal or Heroic from going to LFR to clear it. They would still have the option to do so, but they would not be eligible for loot from bosses they had already killed that week. This ensures that players can still experience the content and practice mechanics without feeling the need to run multiple difficulties for loot.
- Different Progression Dynamics: Progressing through Heroic bosses and then switching to Normal mode for the last two bosses is not the same as using LFR to make Normal mode progression easier. Heroic and Normal modes are designed to be part of the same progression path, whereas LFR is intended as a more accessible option for players who may not be able to commit to organized raiding.
- Gear Disparity: The gear obtained from Heroic bosses is significantly better than that from Normal mode, which justifies the strategy of progressing through Heroic bosses first. In contrast, LFR gear is generally of lower quality than Normal mode gear, so relying on LFR to make Normal mode progression easier can create an imbalance in the gearing process.
- Player Experience: The experience and skill level required for Heroic and Normal modes are closer to each other compared to LFR and Normal modes. Players who can progress through Heroic bosses are likely to have the skills needed for Normal mode, whereas LFR is designed to be more forgiving and accessible to a wider range of players.
- Community Impact: Encouraging players to use LFR as a stepping stone for Normal mode progression can undermine the sense of achievement and community that comes from progressing through Normal mode with a dedicated raid group. It can also lead to a fragmented player base, with some players relying heavily on LFR while others focus on organized raiding.
To summarize this for you, your argument overlooks the differences in progression dynamics, gear disparity, player experience, and community impact between using Heroic and Normal modes versus relying on LFR for Normal mode progression.
Additionally, you seem to overlook the other two catch-up mechanics being introduced to make raiding even easier: H+ dungeons (with Heroic Firelands loot available from a vendor) and the three new Heroic dungeons. These catch-up mechanics, combined with LFR, will significantly streamline the raiding experience.
I mean some do, but thats hardly normal at this point
Hey look, opinions that aren’t in any way facts or real.
You have made all of this up. You have no idea how progression works if you think your little example is not how people play.
Did buying your gear reduce your sense of achievement? Honestly, you do not get to even attempt to comment on how others experience their own achievements in game.
Hilarious since you participate in a system that was directly called “…an erosion of traditional raiding structures…” by Blizzard when it was banned in SoD. So yeah, hypocrite for sure.
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The hypocrisy meter of that guy is just off the charts.
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Man, I’d hope so.
Do people completing normal raids undermine the sense of achievement of those clearing heroic? No - the people clearing that level of content only compare / consider other people of that level.
And which of those catch up mechanics allows the players to experience the raid if they don’t have hours at a time to spend in a raid?
You still fail to recognize that some people want to raid with their guilds and do LFR for transmog / tier / trinkets / etc.
Why is it so bad that people have OPTIONS on what they want to do without being completely locked out of one or the other? Is it because you don’t have any self control and need daddy Blizz to regulate what you have access to… or is it that you want people to be restricted in what they do because you want to gatekeep?
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It’s easy to dismiss arguments by labeling them as opinions without providing any evidence to support that claim. However, making such accusations without backing them up with concrete proof which in turn weakens the credibility of the argument.
If you believe that the examples provided do not reflect how people play, it’s important to present specific evidence or data to support that stance. Simply stating that something is not factual without offering proof does not contribute to a constructive discussion.
While it’s understandable that some players may feel differently about how achievements are earned, it’s important to recognize that buying gear in a GDKP run is a legitimate way to earn achievements. GDKP runs provide a viable option for players to obtain gear and progress.
Accusing others of not understanding the sense of achievement without providing evidence to support that claim weakens the argument. Everyone experiences achievements in their own way, and it’s unfair to dismiss someone’s accomplishments simply because they chose a different path. Afterall there are multiple way to achieve success in the game.
How would sharing a lockout between LFR and Normal/Heroic raids impact those players who rely on LFR to experience the raid content?
It’s important to note that Normal and Heroic raids already share the same lockout. This means that if you complete a raid on Heroic difficulty, you won’t be able to get the transmog for Normal gear from that same raid in the same week. Sharing a lockout between LFR and Normal/Heroic raids would follow the same principle, ensuring consistency across all raid difficulties. This approach respects the existing structure and encourages players to make strategic choices about which difficulty to focus on each week.
The statement is contradictory and hypocritical because it argues for the importance of having options without being locked out, yet it ignores the fact that Normal and Heroic raids already share a lockout. This means that players are already accustomed to making a choice between these difficulties each week. Advocating for options while disregarding the existing lockout system between Normal and Heroic raids undermines the consistency of the argument.
which you did.
Hypocrite.
You would first have to present something more than an opinion. Others, including myself, have attempted a discourse and you shut them all down with your chatGPT replies and dismissive rhetoric.
You are pretty textbook obtuse in your “arguments”.
Erosion of traditional raiding structures. From the horses mouth.
You should take this to heart, as this is what you have been doing this entire thread. Despite being told otherwise by others that your view is not the factual correct one on the subject. Also, a sense of achievement is personal and subjective. You have no say in another’s sense of achievement. So this point is moot and borderline concern trolling.
It does, GDKP is not a supported one of those pathways. Never has been. However it is hypocritical of you to say your version of a sense of achievement outweighs those of others enough to stifle a legitimate progression path.
LFR is a supported pathway, why do you hate supported pathways for progression?
And yes, my reply here is on topic.
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The topic at hand is the fact that LFR shares a lockout with normal and heroic difficulties, and nothing else.
I have attempted to engage with you respectfully, but each time you respond, you deviate from the topic at hand and attempt to impose your own agenda. If you are unable to adhere to the topics being discussed, I kindly ask you once again to refrain from posting.
Then why are you diverging from the topic regularly with your bulleted chatgpt responses?
You are also not engaging with any discussion related to your points, as my reply did. Instead being dismissive entirely of my counter points. most of your points are based on subjectivity, not objectivity. However you refuse discourse every time one of your subjective points is challenged.
Be better in general.
I have none, I raid normal and will likely to continue to do so. I would however enjoy the freedom to do LFR on weeks were I have already done normal.
My view on this is unchanged if I were doing heroics over normal instead.
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If the GPT hasn’t fully consumed your soul let me try to speak to the human inside for a brief moment
If you want to talk like a human for a second you will realize that people play in their own skill brackets and the best players in the world will always be in their own bracket relatively to Semi-HC players, who are different from casuals, who are different from people in this chat who GDKP.
You’re just white knighting people who don’t want to be saved by you. You want to limit them and call it liberation from completing content too soon. Dragon Soul is the worst raid in cataclysm and it’s evident by how many staffs we gave away that we are not looking for healthy progress or a long time.
EDIT: Also has this dude ever ran DS back in the day? If people are struggling and need more gear to complete their newest difficulty challenge the weapons and trinkets , not to mention tier from LFR would easily trump a lot of Firelands Heroic gear. He is looking explicitly at Item Level and making his assessment there.
Please express how if you’re not already a heroic raider why you wouldn’t want LFR Gurthalak or any trinket that comes from LFR
Lastly, if these catchup mechanics exist then what is the argument on why more options can’t be taken advantage of? Do you know how boring it is to run the same dungeons over an over. If i wasn’t in a raiding guild a breath of fresh air where i could do some casual raiding would be to die for.