LFR should share lockout with normal and heroic raids

WoW Classic Cataclysm Classic Discussion
101

While it’s true that sharing the same lockout restricts the ability to do multiple raid difficulties in the same week, it’s important to consider the benefits of this system. Players still have the freedom to choose which level of raiding they want to participate in—LFR, Normal, or Heroic—based on their preferences and goals. This choice allows them to engage with the game in a way that suits their playstyle.

Ultimately, the shared lockout system respects player choice by allowing them to decide(this is the definition of choice) which raid difficulty best aligns with their interests and commitments. It promotes a healthier and more sustainable approach to raiding.

While it’s true that similar discussions occurred during Cataclysm, it’s important to recognize that the current PTR phase is an opportunity for Blizzard to gather valuable feedback and allow more players to test the raid content. Not all players have set groups to test with, and LFR provides a way for a broader audience to experience and provide feedback on the content.

Additionally, it’s worth noting that Blizzard has a history of making changes based on player feedback. For example, the feral druid changes in WoTLK were initially implemented but later reverted or adjusted based on community input. This demonstrates that Blizzard is open to considering player feedback and making adjustments as needed.

Therefore, while the inclusion of LFR may seem inevitable, it’s essential to understand that the PTR phase is a critical part of the development process, and player feedback can still influence the final implementation. It’s not just about accepting changes blindly but actively participating in the testing and feedback process to shape the game’s future.

While it’s understandable to want more options, it’s important to consider the benefits of a shared lockout system for Normal and Heroic raids. The shared lockout system helps maintain the integrity and progression of the raiding experience. Which having LFR share a lockout would further help cata classic. People complain about there not being enough to do well, based on clearing the content at a faster rate due to all the catch-up mechanics. It is a double-edged sword that people seem to ignore. Just like Newtons 3rd law of motion. For every action, there is an equal or greater reaction.

How would the sharing of a lockout between LFR, Normal, and Heroic raids impact the ability to raid, particularly for those not participating in Normal or Heroic raids due to their schedule or preferences?

IT WOULDN’T

102

Do you not get tired of losing? Every stupid post you make is a loss for you. For a normal person it would be mentally exhausting, but you’re something else. You post simply to (ineffectively) make a feeble attempt to troll and anger people. Be better than the benign neoplasm that you’re striving for. No one cares about your stupid and entirely inconsequential thoughts or posts. They only reply to see what stupid :poop: you will say next.

103

It suits their play style only if their play style is to choose one singular path forward. There are some games that are designed that way with only one player character to choose from. Wow has never been this way. Wow not only gives you multiple characters to choose from but allows you play up to 50 of them. From the very start of the game from the character select screen wow gives you multiple options and the ability to choose not just one but all of them.

Lfr follows that same principle, the ability to choose not just between 2 options but to choose both options. Since choosing both options in no way harms the game there’s no reason to add a shared lockout. Like most elitists the gate keepers in wow want to limit people’s options to a binary choice when our choices should encompass several options where we could choose 1, 2, 5, or all of them.

I’ll toss in a little political theory here, which I rarely do. This is why I support ranked choice voting. Like you in wow the elites want to force us to make a binary choice between the two major parties. Ranked choice voting allows us more options so we could vote for a third party without throwing our vote away.

Nonsense. Allowing us to do both normal and heroic raids no more hurts the raiding experience than allowing us to do normal and heroic dungeon hurts the integrity and progression of the dungeon system.

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104

Moist, are we expecting another version of this thread once flex raids are released with SoO? Those don’t share a lockout either.

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105

The amount of sweats in total whine mode about having to sweat is funny. If you don’t want to do LFR then don’t do LFR. If some want to do both fine by me. If you only want to do LFR go for it.

Deal with it.

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106

Moist’s posts are the absolute best. He tries to talk about the integrity of progression and the importance of guild raiding.

The guy gets his gear buying it in GDKPs. He is a complete and utter hypocrite. For a while I thought he wasn’t a troll; he’s just clueless. But…no one is this clueless. Maybe he is trolling.

And his absurd justifications for a shared lockout are quite literally the opposite of reality, the opposite of what a shared lockout would do. He could not be more wrong. Everything he says is backwards. It’s amazing.

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107

Like I said before it’s all ego, they want to limit people getting gear. The same thing was cried when heroics started giving epics and the sweats got pissy about it. I did normal and heroic ds. Don’t understand the hatred for LFR, when I was raiding, LFR was an after thought.

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108

That’s what the kick system is for

TLDR: we can already hypergear with infernos, that doesn’t prevent idiots like me to be bad at the start of new raid tiers so there’s no point for “balanced progression experience” to be an excuse for sharing the new, more relevant practice ground for new raid tiers for the average player like us. I say this with no intention to hate on you or your comment, one love :heart:
Long version:
Sharing the lockout would remove an opportunity to practice and learn mechanics before joining a raiding guild, which I think would help new or less experienced players if they wanted to progress onto NM and HC. I said this because you had said:

Sharing a lockout will prevent hyper gearing, maintain the challenge of new raid tiers, and ensure a balanced progression experience for all players.

We can already hyper gear with infernos. People reach a much higher item level than back during OG cata, when we only had the option of heroic dungeons and very expensive boes not everyone had access to, and no token for gold, when in preparation for new raid tiers.

And even with infernos this time around, my guild and me, and I bet a lot of other folks, we’ve seen over geared peeps who had no clue about their spec, rotations, etc, do poorly at the start of new raid tiers. And I don’t blame them. Us Joes and Josephines are kinda bad at that point. I ain’t no gifted kid I’m sorry. I still wanna play this though.

The 5% of pros aren’t gonna be in LFR, they might not even bother with normal for long. The rest of us are gonna have our learning curve, let us have a new way to practice, one that actually matters cuz’ it’s a practice version of the other difficulties, so it contextualizes. Not something completely unrelated to raids like infernos and the likes.

If the challenge of new raid tiers was to be preserved, deleting infernos and any type of new dungeon would be the solution, so that we could experience the raw, brand new experience of back then but that’s not going to happen. They at Blizz have many reasons why that wouldn’t work. I don’t see how it could. We can’t go back in time, sadly. Cheers.

2 Likes
109

Ban those guilds then. And not just a slap on the hand, perma them.

no it hasnt, people are going to be toxic no matter what. Punishing people is the solution to this and again dont slap people on the hand. Start throwing out real consequences.

no it didnt. people have been blowing through content ever since classic has came back, this content isnt hard in the first place.

Why do you care? Its of no consequence to you. They arent getting heroic level gear.

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110

They have no facts or proof.
It is like arguing with a 5 y/o as to why eating rocks are bad.

They lost their battle and they are grasping at straws but sadly they look pathetic.

@ Ltdán (and your pack of alts)… RDF is coming and it is not changing to anything other than what was originally deployed - for 1 simple reason - they are not going to spend time/money/effort on changing something that works.

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112

so ban pugging and GDKP, make sure everyone in the raid group is part of the same guild to get credit for a kill and loot drops

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Banning pugging and GDKP and requiring everyone in the raid group to be part of the same guild to get credit for a kill and loot drops is a form of gatekeeping. It would restrict players’ ability to participate in raids with friends or other players outside their guild, limiting their options.

On the other hand, having LFR share a lockout with Normal and Heroic raids is not gatekeeping. It respects player choice by allowing them to decide which raid difficulty best aligns with their interests and commitments. Players still have the freedom to choose which level of raiding they want to participate in—LFR, Normal, or Heroic—based on their preferences and goals. This choice allows them to engage with the game in a way that suits their playstyle without being overwhelmed by the need to raid in multiple settings.

Ultimately, the shared lockout system promotes a healthier and more sustainable approach to raiding. It respects the choices players make and ensures that everyone can enjoy the game in a way that best suits their playstyle.

Yes, and now LFR would be a third avenue for the final phase of Cata. This is one of the reasons LFR should share a lockout.

Sharing a lockout between LFR and Normal/Heroic raids would not prevent LFR from serving as a practice ground for new raid tiers. Players can still use LFR to familiarize themselves with raid mechanics and improve their skills before attempting higher difficulties. The shared lockout system ensures that players focus on one difficulty at a time, promoting a more balanced and enjoyable gaming experience.

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It limits player choice by forcing them into a binary choice of one raid difficulty that restricts their interests and commitments to a singular path forward.

By limiting everyone’s choice it protects a tiny fringe group of hard core players who are overwhelmed by the need to raid in multiple settings.

fixed it for you

115

explain how this argument about LFR sharing a lockout with normal and heroic is counterdictory “It limits player choice by forcing them into a binary choice of one raid difficulty that restricts their interests and commitments to a singular path forward.”

The argument that sharing a lockout between LFR and Normal/Heroic raids limits player choice by forcing them into a binary choice is contradictory because it overlooks the fact that players still have the freedom to choose which raid difficulty they want to participate in.

LFR sharing a lockout with Normal and Heroic raids is similar to Normal and Heroic sharing a lockout. This would simply provide players with an additional option.

116

We get it, this negatively impacts your GDKP’s ability to sell gear. Let me play the world’s smallest violin for the RMT crowd. GDKPs and the RMT mentality ruined Classic.

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117

No, it doesn’t, because the people who want to GDKP will GDKP. That is their choice.

118

People who want to do both lfr and normal will do both lfr and normal. That is their choice. I find your whining and crying hilarious and encourage you to continue for the laughs but lfr will never share a lockout with normal and heroic. I found this video of you on youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVQOLX1wDAc
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119

No one has time for these childish rules sets, we are not teens anymore, we are adults that work.

120

“we can’t have LFR because that would make it so people don’t need to join a guild to raid (ignore the fact that most heroic raids are done in guild groups), but we can’t get rid of pugs and GDKP because that would make it so people can’t raid with others outside their guild”

bro can’t even keep the same argument for a single sentence before he flip flops his stance.

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The world would be a much better place were that the main option instead of something unlikely to happen. :man_shrugging:

Hell, the Alpha/Beta/Gamma dungeons did more to hurt the game since they took normal Heroics out behind the shed and unloaded the full magazine.

Let’s not forget the Kalecgos spam every five seconds in SW. I get the feeling back in Cherry Vanilla Cata it didn’t happen anywhere near as often…certainly never happened when I myself was in SW afaik…

Most of us are, but I really wonder how the no-lifers manage to afford their sub when they aren’t working anything close to full-time. o.O

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