The thread isn’t even arguing against the inclusion of LFR, maybe you should try reading.
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I did, it didnt share a lockout when cata was live why should it share one now?
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Because making it share a lockout would remove the main complaint about LFR while not affecting casuals who wouldn’t even be raiding without LFR at all.
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Lol most casuals go and AFK threw LFR while the raiders carry them. Making it share a lockout would actually stop the AFK behavior.
Alright and how would this effect LFR sharing a lockout then?
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The only reason someone would want LFR and normal to share the same lockout is because they want to gatekeep casuals from trying normal mode.
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Yes it is. This guy has been arguing against LFR for months. And now that it’s coming he’s arguing to make it worse and less accessible. All because he “doesn’t want to feel forced to use it.”
He’s a pseudo-elitist who has no self control and wants to gatekeep how others play the game.
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Having LFR and Normal share the same lockout is not about gatekeeping casuals from trying Normal mode. It encourages players to focus on one difficulty and improve their skills. This is the opposite of gatekeeping.
Furthermore, if players choose to do LFR, the only person ‘gatekeeping’ them from trying Normal mode is themselves. It’s important to recognize that personal choices play a significant role in how players engage with the game.
Having LFR share a lockout with Heroic and Normal is not about making the game worse or less accessible. Considering it is an additional difficulty option, it should be treated as such to maintain the integrity and progression of the raiding experience.
This is not gatekeeping see the statement above. You claim that LFR is optional. Since it is an optional difficulty, it should be treated equally as other raid difficulties. Additionally, lets not forget that we will have two other forms of catch-up mechanics in the last phase of Cataclysm.
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“My GDKP will lose out on selling items if LFR doesn’t share a lockout with N/H raids. REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!” -This Post If It Was Being Honest
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Echo chamber only guis! Everyone else get out!
Isn’t this against the subject you demand we stick to?
How did they do it in OG before LFR. They added LFR at the end of cata to help casuals and they are adding it now to help casuals just as they did before. They should implement it just as they did before for that “classic experience”.
Except for the ones who just want to raid whatever they want to raid. What about the ones who do all the “hardcore” raids and just want to get some different colored transmogs? You are telling them that they can either do their normal / heroic raids, or get their transmogs, but not both because you can’t control yourself.
You are progressing through content that has been out for over a decade. Addons have been developed that make the mechanics of any difficulty meaningless. World first kills were achieved, probably before you started playing WoW. What challenge and sense of accomplishment are you referring to?
What if they want to do more than just get gear? What if they want the added challenge that comes with running LFR with no coordination, no stacking, no voice chat, no strategy, etc…?
Shared lockout doesn’t affect people doing nothing but LFR, but it does affect people who actually WANT to do more. It gives people more options - including the OPTION to NOT DO LFR.
Your idea of “constructive discussion” is “I don’t like LFR therefore we shouldn’t have it. I’m better than you are therefore I matter more. Everyone who likes LFR doesn’t count because they don’t raid 7/7H every week, so they need to stop commenting on threads about LFR. Adding LFR means I have to do more work because I can’t control my own choices when playing a game.”
Except for those people who are “obligated” to raid normal / heroic with their guilds but still want the transmogs of LFR.
Lol GDKPs would actually loose if LFR has a shared lockout but that argument is not even relevant to the discussion of whether LFR should share a lockout with Normal and Heroic raids.
There are definitely different levels of “casual” sure some who dont raid at all, some who only do LFR, some who would do normal and LFR. Those last ones are the people who would be hurt by this.
Its simply not fair to make them choose when they may not have much luck getting into a normal or beating bosses. So they will have to wait till the last day to do LFR if it didnt work out for them or not be able to do LFR at all maybe.
I dont think we should put limits on people playing.
It also sucks for alts. I may run my alt through LFR but maybe another raid lost a member and I can step in on my alt to help. That could hurt guilds with multiple raid teams.
Stronger people also are a blessing in LFR where if its only the lowest experienced members it can still be pretty painful. Wiping in LFR is not fun
The only positive of restricting the lockouts is that people wont feel pressured to run multiple raids? That just doesnt seem like a strong enough argument.
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How would making LFR share a lockout with normal and heroic impact casual players who do not raid normal or heroic raids?
It wouldn’t!!!
Well it looks like you asked this question a 2nd time in the same post
Having LFR and Normal share the same lockout is not about restricting player choice. In fact, it respects the choices players make. If someone chooses to do LFR, they are exercising their free will.
Additionally, players who want to raid for different colored transmogs can still do so by prioritizing their activities.
If someone is genuinely seeking a challenge, LFR IS NOT THE ANSWER!!! It is designed to be more accessible and less demanding than Normal or Heroic raids. There for less challenging.
My idea of constructive discussion is not about dismissing LFR or devaluing the opinions of those who enjoy it. The suggestion to have LFR share a lockout with Normal and Heroic raids is about maintaining the integrity and progression of the raiding experience.
You know where you have to be to think lfr is an upgrade to folks in fl right now.
Its catch up gear and another option outside puttinf t12 gear on a vendor to force folks to not even step foot into fl again.
Its wild no one does t11 because of that vendor. At least now we can practicd current raid while getting catch up gear
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You chose to ignore the broader context of player choice and game design.
While it may seem amusing, allowing players to AFK and get carried in LFR takes away from the intended experience. If LFR is designed to teach players the mechanics of fights, permitting them to AFK and be carried offers no real benefit. Encouraging casual players to engage and learn from their mistakes without being carried would be more beneficial.
Lol, 4-piece tier trinkets & Madness weapons, all of those items, though they are lower than heroic FL gear, are actually an upgrade because of the bonuses.
To which you still haven’t given a response to counter.
If I choose to raid with a guild, but still want to get transmogs, I don’t have much of a choice now do I? With non-shared lockouts, I could decide to do one or the other or both.
Yep, and restricting that free will by adding a restriction that wasn’t in place before removes that free will. Their choice becomes: do the raids with your guild as you are committed to doing (because who doesn’t like gaming as a non-paid 2nd job), or do LFR for transmogs. If someone is fully geared through the normals and heroics they have been running, do you think their guild is going to let them skip on gearing everyone else up so that they can get pretty colors?
You obviously haven’t done LFR N’Zoth or Jailer.
AKA: Gatekeeping people from doing what they want to do.
While I won’t argue that this is a problem, it is one that is solved by players VK’ing the AFKs.
How many guilds out there have loot councils and end up funneling gear to those people who “most deserve it”. Why not allow the non-officer / non-“core” members / non-eGFs the ability to help their guild and potentially get some upgrades on their own time since their guild has better ideas of where loot should go?
I actually did this was the response
This statement
Is contradictory. If you choose to raid with a guild, you are exercising your free will.
Simply because you made the CHOICE to raid with your guild.
Yep, and restricting that free will by adding a restriction that wasn’t in place before removes that free will. Their choice becomes: do the raids with your guild as you are committed to doing (because who doesn’t like gaming as a non-paid 2nd job), or do LFR for transmogs. If someone is fully geared through the normals and heroics they have been running, do you think their guild is going to let them skip on gearing everyone else up so that they can get pretty colors?
The suggestion to have LFR and Normal share the same lockout is not about restricting free will. Instead, it respects the choices players make. If someone chooses to do LFR, they are exercising their free will.
This discussion is about Classic, not Retail. The experiences and challenges in LFR for Classic are different from those in Retail. Therefore, this statement is irrelevant.
Ive already clarified how this is not gatekeeping.
While it is true that some guilds use loot councils to distribute gear to those deemed most deserving, it is important to recognize the value of player choice. Those players made and continue to make the choice to raid in that environment and agreed to the terms of the loot distribution. They have free will and can leave if they choose; no one is forcing them to raid there.
Regarding LFR sharing a lockout with normal and heroic raids, it’s crucial to understand that players make the choice to raid in that setting. By choosing to participate in LFR, players are exercising their free will and making a conscious decision about how they want to engage with the game.
This choice does not impact the integrity of the lockout system, as players continue to have the freedom to decide which raid setting best suits their needs and preferences. Ultimately, respecting player choice.
Considering that classic doesn’t have LFR yet, any discussion has to be made on what is available (retail / historical).
Sharing the same lockout restricts still restricts their choices. They can choose LFR or Normal or Heroic, but no combination. Why not give people the choice to do what level of raiding they want to do, when they want to do it? Why should people have to choose between raiding with their guild, or getting transmogs?
Instead of people having fun and playing the way they want, you want their choices to have negative consequences. If they want to do LFR, they aren’t allowed to do normal/heroic/GDKP. If they do normal/heroic/GDKP, they can’t do LFR.
It’s a game - let people play the way they want.
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Because HE doesn’t want to do more raiding than his preferred difficulty. And since he feels forced to use lfr, then no one should have that option. That’s it. That’s his argument.
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this is literally all ego, this same damn conversation came about when cata was live. It’s coming it’s not changing get over it or don’t do LFR simple as that.
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There’s no good reason for normal and heroic raids to share a lockout. If players want to do both blizzard should just let them. I’d remove it. I want more options not less. You want to increase gatekeeping and I want less of it.
Lfr is designed for people who can’t schedule guild runs on normal to have fun raiding. Fun is a concept you never consider.