To be fair, most who roll “need” immediately equip, and it’s soulbound once you equip it anyway so even if something better drops later you already can’t trade it
I don’t think anyone can actually speak to what most people do.
Personally, even if I’m intending to equip it, I rarely do so until after the raid.
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In all these loot threads, loot method really doesnt matter. Personal loot vs Group loot arent the issues nor the problems. Players dont understand the systems well enough for them to be issues.
Its entitlement. They see the loot, they want the loot, and when they dont get the loot they fell victimized and that the other player doesnt deserve it.
Personal Loot: felt unlucky, other player doesnt deserve it and needs to give it over. Addons become rampant to the point where players felt scared to loot bosses due to drama and other products (like anima) were being traced to narrow down who didnt loot. Addons called what you were wearing compared to what you looted and made raid announcements that it wa tradable, becuase the player with the addons felt the loot should be thiers.
Group Loot: Players view this as others stealing thier loot, or “ninjaing” what they think should be thiers. Players are inspecting others deeming them as jerks for simply rolling. Seeing themselves lose on rolls compared to another player makes them think the system is broken as its not giving them the loot they want.
There will be other runs, there will be other loot. You will see the drop again. If less people focused on losing a roll and instead took that same energy and focus and applied it to the game, they may have more enjoyment out of it.
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Here’s what gets me:
~[crummy necklace(Raid Finder)] has dropped~
DelightfulStranger-RealmRedacted rolls need for 87.
DelightfulStranger-RealmRedacted receives [crummy necklace(Raid Finder)].
DelightfulStranger-RealmRedacted: Selling [crummy necklace(Raid Finder)].
Players2-7:How much for it?
DelightfulStranger-RealmRedacted: 20k.
Players2-7:lol no
Player 1: Oh. ummm, I guess I can give you 500g for it.
DelightfulStranger-RealmRedacted: 20k.
Player1:Oh sorry, I don’t have that much… I’m new to the game and I just leveled up a new character on this realm to be able to join my new friend’s guild-
DelightfulStranger-RealmRedacted: Ok fine, 10k.
Player1: But I only have 5k on this charac-
DelightfulStranger-RealmRedacted: Ok FINE, but 5k is the absolute lowest I’ll go.
Player1: But I was only trying to offer 500g. I technically don’t even have 5k after I just repaired my gear for 400g, so-
DelightfulStranger-RealmRedacted: Alright, I guess I’ll just vendor it(Vendor Sell Price: 61g 47s) since you all are being completely unreasonable.
~DelightfulStranger-RealmRedacted has left the raid.~
Now, I know some of you will say ‘why didn’t they just pay 5k? It’s only 5k lol’. But what I don’t understand is If it’s ‘only 5k’ then why not just give the item without trying to hold the loot as ransom? If having to pay for loot is such a trivial matter, then why do you need to sell it in exchange for gold?
The above scenario is obviously dramaticized for narrative brevity(a more realistic scenario would have the seller accompanied with a couple buddies engage in a pseudo bidding war to try and drive the price higher).
It’s your loot and you need it now!.
Call gg-Kentworth, 877-LOOT-NOW
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I get the frustration, but at the end of the day the person won the item fair and square. You would likely think it’s absurd if someone got upset at you for not trading them a tier token that would have been the fifth tier piece for you when it would complete their 4 piece. There are no universal rules with what players should do with items they win in raid; it may feel worse to you for someone to turn around and sell an item, but there is no policy dictating such activity for the person that wins the item equip it for themselves.
A lot of people would likely benefit from not worrying at all what comes of loot they don’t win…
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In classic needing on an item that you are only needing on for monetary gain is called NINJA LOOTING. In retail needing on an item for monetary gain is considered fair for some reason. And they call us the toxic community 
it’s like a community of ninja looters made manifest.
Anybody with a brain should just say “look at this guy trying to sell loot, lol” and move on with their day instead of engaging at all.
If I roll need on an item and win it, and it’s an upgrade, then yeah I will equip it straight away and worry about my ruined transmog later. If it’s for transmog…well, there’s not really any point to equipping it. I won’t be trading it away anyway, so it will sit comfortably in my bags until I can sort things out later.
That’s funny had no idea you could trade gold, especially not inside of lfr. I know you can trade gold in your own battlegroup or whatever it’s called, can you do it with any other server as well?
You can only trade gold to other players who are in your server cluster/region. The restrictions might be fairly loose, but they are indeed there.
All I know is, if I’m in LFR and someone offers to sell something they rolled “need” on in raid chat, I’m initiating a vote to kick.
It’s not against the rules to offer to sell gear that you needed on to others in the raid despite not needing it, it’s just gross.
It’s not against the rules to vote to kick someone from the group for any reason at all, including contributing to a gross, feel-bad environment for loot.
It doesn’t matter how the math hashes out on personal loot versus group loot, being able to see people pull shenanigans right in your face damages the community and the game. LFR and LFD should have never switched off of personal loot, period. Manual groups put together in the LFG tool or by guilds? Let them do whatever they want. But making randos visibly, purposely go head to head over the same loot item is a terrible move for the community.
My theory is, they’re purposely wanting to make LFR as awful as possible so that people stop doing it because having to retune mechanics around uncoordinated groups takes time and time is money. And, you really can’t discount the devs in the upper tiers of development now who came to it from being high-end players with elitist attitudes who genuinely bought in to the line that the game was selling, that having better-itemized gear actually makes them better at the game and being better at the game makes them a better person fundamentally than someone who plays in lower difficulties.
On the bright side, selling people gear for gold puts your account at risk when you don’t know them or where they got their gold. There’s been quite a lot of people in the Customer Support forum lately who caught permanent account bans for receiving stolen gold or gold bought with cash. Some were able to negotiate down to six month suspensions if it turned out that they really had no idea the gold was dirty, but that’s still a lot of time to sit out of the game just because you thought you’d make some funds by extorting people in LFR.
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Selling LFR gear sounds like a decent gold maker.
Hmmmm…interesting.
Gear that you do not win outright is not yours to began with. You are not entitled to it by any means. The person who has it in their bags that won it, is theirs to do with as they please, what ever that is.
You’re excluding a major difference between classic and retail that affect system design. In classic, there is no transmog or loot trading. You will get zero value out of that item beyond the duration when you are wearing it and you can’t roll on an item that might be an upgrade only to turn out to be worse after a sim or if you nabbed something else later in the run. Simply put, if you roll on an item that is clearly worse for your character’s performance, the only thing you get from it is the cost to vendor (or disenchant if you are an enchanter).
With retail, transmog is important to a lot of people (enough so they’ll choose to run LFR with complete strangers) and players can hold onto pieces they win on earlier bosses until they see if they get something better. I definitely think it’s scummy for people to roll for things they don’t care about/already have the appearance of and they know when pressing need they will simply try to turn around and sell it. But I also understand that from a system design perspective, there’s no way to prevent the latter without eliminating many valid use cases that do exist that aren’t malicious. And quite honestly as frustrating as it is to deal with the people selling items, those other use cases are more beneficial to more players in the game than the item selling is harmful.
One last thing I wanted to touch on is your assessment of the term fair. There is nothing unfair about players rolling in either flavors of the game for items for whatever reason they have. You don’t get to decide that a player who has put less time into their character and is likely being carried by players who have put more time into theirs should have complete rights to any loot that drops. All players who participate in a kill have the right to roll on the rewards, regardless what their intent is for those rewards. You’re actually arguing for Blizzard to introduce an unfair system toward the players who have more gear and in a lot of cases are contributing more to the gearing of lesser geared players.
The main issue people like myself have with this isn’t your reaction to players being able to sell items they get, it’s that it has NOTHING to do with being group versus personal loot. Blizzard introduced cross-realm gold trading in Dragonflight when the loot system was group loot, but group loot had nothing to do with players being able to sell the items they get. Personal loot would have allowed players to do the exact same things if the cross-realm gold trade change was made during Shadowlands.
There are reasons to prefer personal loot over group loot, I won’t try to convince you that you’re wrong if you value one of those reasons over any good that might come from group loot. I actually do think LFR should still be on personal loot for a couple of those reasons. It’s just that trading items for gold is not something that was enabled or even worsened by group loot and the blame for players choosing to do so is misplaced.
I find this highly unlikely. Blizzard even stated that LFR helps Blizzard justify the amount of resources they put into raid every season. So few people step into the raid even on normal (much less heroic and mythic) compared to LFR that it allows WoW management to make a compelling cost-benefit analysis for continuing to put so many hours into raid when justifying their game budget to the higher ups as Activision Blizzard (and Microsoft now).
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You’re really going with a conspiracy theory over the simple idea that it was easier to use one system for all and that GL addresses issues blizz had with PL?
The crazier part is, people who swear they need gear from LFR that would rather come up with wild theories instead of figuring out that blizz actually gave them better chances at winning and that people with PL were still intentionally trying to get loot against them.
If you didn’t win the roll, it was never your loot. I don’t think there’s any way to actually ‘steal’ loot in LFR. You can violate some social expectations, but you can’t violate Blizz’s loot rules for that setting.
On a brighter note, there’s plenty of catch-up mechanisms in place that will gear you faster than LFR anyway.
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Yup. I hate to say it but LFR brings out the worst people sometimes. People on these forums are going to defend it too. It’s just the state of the WoW situation.
There’s a thing that happened… with CRZ, with LFG, as the anonymity that increased so did the lack of server community. It has been a steady decline in the WoW player community and it sucks. It’s one thing that I really enjoyed about playing WoW HC and SoD and Wrath classic.
People focused more on helping each other out back then. With the revival of these classic environments the community engagement increased significantly for me. Going back to retail I’ve found some better community engagement when pugging with a small group (we had the group, we were pugging 1) but it’s definitely not the same.
I prefer the option to pass on gear to avoid whispers.
If you lose a roll and have a second chance at the desired gear, why complain. No one is forcing you to buy it. Just offer 1000 or whatever you think is is worth and maybe they will say OK, since it is more than the vendor price.
Personally, i have never seen this happen. I hard more toxic trolls back in vanilla to be honest.
I’ve only seen someone try and sell an LFR drop once but this is exactly what happened.
Never saw an LFR rally behind a common banner faster than giving that DK the boot mid-run.
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