Personally this has never happened to me and never will since I operate inside a guild. That said people have to realize that this stuff just makes people worse and creates an environment in pug content where everyone is just a tool to use and abuse rather than a real person.
I don’t disagree with you at all here.
Because a lot of the rest of us actually care more about getting the gear than seeing the rolls.
It’s no less fun than not winning the item and never reading the chat.
One of the biggest arguments the PL only crowd pulls out is that nobody should ever be able to tell them what to do with their loot… But suddenly it’s ok for them to decide what everyone else should be able to do with theirs. 
3 Likes
Sorry to bust your strawman but I’m not a PL advocate.
Doesn’t change the fact that people being able to decide what to do with the items they win tends to be considered a good thing, until someone who didn’t win disagrees.
You say that as if GL gives more loot than PL does. Hint: It doesn’t.
I say that as if it gives players who need it to equip a better chance at winning, which it does. That’s not an opinion, it’s a fact that they built the system to work that way.
How? Everyone on this forum (except me and maybe a couple others) has sworn from day dot that the only difference between GL and PL is that GL exposes the hidden internal roll that PL does.
I’ve seen this happen.
Just tell the raid he’s trying to sell you gear he rolled on but didn’t need. Everyone will happily votekick the guy.
Ok i guess? I don’t really care.
Blame blizzard. They decide whether there are more or less drops. The issue isn’t with GL there.
I’ve seen it before on lfr. I would probably do the same but I’d be reasonable and sell it appropriately. I was in a normal pug a few days ago and I won a trinket that I didn’t really care for and a paladin won the 2 hander from smolderon I wanted, he whispered me “sword for trinket?” So we traded and we were both happy.
Whut? We had PERSONAL LOOT, they REMOVED PERSONAL LOOT. By ignoring the player base, they reintroduced the worse system and one of the most hated systems since Vanilla. Players wanted the choice between ML and PL. Not old Need/Greed back.
AS A RAID LEADER.
If given the choice of running PL or ML. I would straight up go with PL for my team.
Technically they are the same thing mostly… Mostly… The biggest exception is that players can choose to roll or not, vs PL that rolled for you. So, while technically they are pretty much the same. People are not computers and in their mind the majority of WoW players lack the ability to logically understand this. Then what happens is now we end up with players complaining constantly about loot. NON FREAKING STOP… As a raid leader I am supposed to help manage loot now. Somehow the new system makes every player think I am responsible for making sure loot gets distributed fairly… When in fact I want nothing to do with loot management. But I fully support a raid teams choice to go with ML if they want to. Matter of fact, our CE team already does ML now via addons.
Again, while technically both systems are the same. Players see someone getting loot with PL as someone getting lucky, they may ask the player of they need and its the players choice if they keep or trade. But with the current loot system, when players win a need role. Somehow in their brain they think that person is out to take their loot away. Its mind numbing and stressful on raid leaders with this crap loot system.
The game needs to go back to PL and give players in Mythic Raids the option for ML. The end…
Blizzard would need to be able to reliably identify what is an upgrade. Yes, it’s easy to see the obvious outlier of the person with the perfectly stated mythic raid level chest piece rolling on the worst possible stat 40 item level downgrade chest from LFR and say the system shouldn’t allow it. But that same system would also have to govern the times when a 40 item level lower trinket is 25% better than what the person is wearing. A line has to be drawn somewhere, and that line moves for every spec and oftentimes for every possible stat distribution for every spec (as you get more of stat A, stat B can rise in priority). It quickly becomes clear that no system could exist that wouldn’t either prevent deserving players from rolling on actual upgrades or still allow some painfully obvious cases of the player rolling on a downgrade.
Except the same thing could happen under any loot system that allows trades, PL included. In fact, GL has a layer of protection against this behavior that PL never did.
What could be added to the TOS that wouldn’t exclude perfectly valid use cases where the intent wasn’t exploitative?
The same number of items drops across the same number of players. Across the entire community, the chance for someone to get an item is exactly the same.
The chance for you to get loot specifically is influenced by group composition so it’s hard to give a concrete number for you specifically. But with a normal group comp distribution, your chances are at worst equal under GL as PL. However, GL doesn’t allow players to roll need if they have the exact same item at the same or higher item level. This means as soon as anyone that could use an item you would want gets that item from the same or higher difficulty as you are running your odds at getting that item rise. This gives you better odds on average to get an item you want the longer a season progresses than you would have under PL, which could have selected anyone else for loot and given them any item regardless what else they could be wearing.
Anyone who swears the loot system mechanics are the same are mistaken. However, the chances at you taking away an item, assuming you aren’t in a group with a heavily skewed composition, is greater because of the protections I mentioned in the previous paragraph in GL. Also, the raid will see fewer necks, rings, and cloaks, which can further increase your chances at getting loot once you have those items.
They introduced a new system that is called the same as something we had previously. It draws elements from both PL and old GL. It may not suit your needs any better, so I am not going to pretend it definitely is better for you. But it’s simply disingenuous to call this system the same as what existed in vanilla.
Further, the player base was heavily divided on personal loot. You cannot sit here and claim that the entire player base was united on the benefits of personal loot and Blizzard decided to give a big middle finger to the entire player base.
My guild doesn’t try to control most rolls, only while people are completing 4-piece and very rare items. Since 90% of the drops are not either of these scenarios, group loot works a lot better for us. I do agree Blizzard should have given us the choice to use GL, ML, or PL, I am much happier for my guild’s uses with GL than I was with PL or would have been with ML. Again, you do not speak for the entire community.
I really don’t understand your logic here. For groups where everyone agrees on using ML, GL can be treated the same as ML. I agree the formal loot system ML should be an option, but GL can be used identically to ML in ways PL simply could not. If you genuinely think ML is good for the game, I cannot fathom how you could possibly reach the conclusion that PL is a suitable alternative over GL given the latter can behave like ML with full raid buy-in while the former cannot.
I didn’t say it was. I was pointing out that the quantity of loot is exactly the same. The only difference is that GL allows others to roll on what would otherwise have been the hidden internal roll that PL did. So apart from the rolls/drops being hidden, GL and PL are pretty similar. Although you could weight things under PL whereas GL ignores armor types. That can work either for or against you depending on group comp.
LFR is for you to see the content… not really “get gear”
tbh it does suck when youre LFRing an alt and you see an upgrade and someone wins the item when they dont need it simply cause they dont “own” that specific LFR gear so the game lets them need on it.
I think there is room in the game to have a auction style loot system.
Then you’ve ignored the hundreds of posts explaining how rolling restrictions work, including the original from blizz. If you’re going to be willfully ignorant for this long, you clearly only want to complain.
Care to specify what you’re on about or do you want to just continue strawmanning since you clearly have no argument to begin with and have no idea what you’re talking about. SMH.
PL make it easier for higher geared players to “steal” loot from people who need it.
It’s also not the same GL that previously existed.
If you’re running an organized team with PL you just don’t care about maximizing the benefits of your loot. (And ML doesn’t exist, so irrelevant to the current conversation.)
If you’re at least a teenager and can’t understand “blizz put in restrictions that PL didn’t have which give lower geared players better chances of winning gear” then you’ve got bigger fish to fry.
They complained about the same thing (higher geared players getting loot they don’t “need” with PL.)
They aren’t though, and it’s really not hard to understand the functional difference. Even if always pressing need in GL is similar to PL, you still have the rolling restrictions that give lower geared people a better shot.
Again, it’s been said a ton of times, including by blizz. You’ve been ignoring it for over a year. If you actually care about the answer, it’s in every one of these threads already.