I disagree that this will “significantly” reduce the amount of loot. What is your basis for that?
I’m not sure it would disincentivizing people all that much (across the entire player base), to be honest.
- The people who are after transmog especially if they already have a higher difficulty item have more incentive to go with any flavor of PL since they wouldn’t be prevented from rolling like GL does.
- I don’t know how many people running LFR as part of their primary gameplay loop count on folks being able to trade them items so I wouldn’t expect the lack of trading to make them choose not to go into the mode.
- The lower likelihood at getting loot is not something I would expect most people to even be able to feel and I highly doubt many have kept a log of their loot wins versus times they’ve run LFR in order to have a true record of their luck.
Honestly the only people I suspect who were going to queue up for LFR before that wouldn’t now are people who go in with a specific intent to roll on items they don’t need/want except to possibly sell/troll the group. While I am absolutely with you that people need to grow up when they don’t win and just ignore the people who engage in such behavior, I don’t think it’s a negative if they found their way out of LFR. It would certainly do wonders for my sanity to see fewer of these posts and less moaning in LFR whenever I do find myself there are the start of the season for early tier/trinkets.
It’s not about a true record, it’s about perception. If it were about actual outcomes, nobody would be complaining about GL.
If people constantly feel like nothing’s dropping and they aren’t getting anything, why bother for anyone except the mog farmers (who, you are absolutely correct, are the only winners with PL)
Personally, even going back to PL would be a big turnoff, because most runs were a waste for just rings cloaks and necks that I was just sharding.
Math.
It does get a bit tricky to calculate and apples-to-apples comparison between GL and PL because group comp plays a factor in the loot that actually drops in the latter while is completely ignored in the former. For any example I could draw with which to demonstrate the probabilities, there would exist an example of a heavily skewed raid composition for which the wasted items in GL would negate the benefits the system has for loot acquisition.
With that said, if we assume that most LFR groups have nearly all item types covered and there will be few items that could drop that are helpful to nobody (beyond gold to sell), the protections GL affords that do not exist in PL will increase the odds at players who need loot to get loot. As soon as anyone in the raid has an item that you could use at the same or higher item level, they can no longer need roll on the item if it drops. This increases your chances to win the roll by removing one person you are competing with.
Any luck that skews against one player due to being in a raid that isn’t completely uniform necessarily has to skew toward another player because there has to be fewer members they are competing with for their items. While it’s possible that any one player is more frequently in raids skewed against them, across the entire player base it’s a mathematical certainty that someone else is in a favorable position.
In the worst case scenario, that nobody already has the item, you are looking at the same probability at loot as you would have under PL. But GL will give you improved odds as soon as players start collecting those raid pieces and become ineligible to roll; in PL those players that get a hold of items you want in the raid have just as much of a chance to be given that same item again as you do to get it the first time. You would rely on trades to get that item, which is something I highly doubt anyone would genuinely count on in LFR.
So for a single individual, their luck could be worse under GL than PL, depending on the group comps they find themselves in. But that luck is zero sum - someone else necessarily has to benefit from you getting worse luck. So when considering the entire player base, GL ensures more loot goes to players who need it than PL did since trades didn’t always happen in cases where PL gave the same piece to a person as what they already had.
people talk about personal loot from the point of view of being in the favor, but for example if you don’t play plate this tier, with PL you are pretty much screwed for gear.
I had the displeasure of being the only DK in my raid group for Shadowlands and I have never seen a trinket drop from Sylvanas or my class ring from Anduin since PL made sure that my chances to get gear were slim to benefit the Hunter/Rogue stack for Bows and Daggers, then Survival became huge meta in Season 3 and 4, so here we go Hunter/Rogue stack again.
Eat your losses and move on, if people wouldn’t simply bendover for people selling gear and actually kick these cucks they wouldn’t be able to get away with it.
Ok, that’s my misunderstanding of what you were proposing, then.
I had assumed that you were implying GL w/ hidden rolls and no trades resulting in a significant loss to individual loot.
Nope, I was suggesting that LFR might be better with PL, hidden loot outcomes, and no trades overall. However, one tradeoff to such a system is that players should expect less loot due to them getting duplicates and no option to trade.
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Im sorry but 5k is nothing but it still like the fact i can trade for gold to be honest 5k is pennys.
Don’t like LFR blizzard should just remove LFR then. Only normal heroic and mythic.
See no more drama coming from people who didn’t who is a cry baby and complain. Fact is you lose the roll so deal with it. The item wasn’t yours to begin with so it was not stolen from you. Everyone who was there for the raid can can roll need if they want to for whatever reason and everyone’s reason is equal. You might think people who lower ilv should be the one to get the item. I think everyone need roll is equal.
Even in personal loot you get tons of people whispering you for loot since you have something better or complain in cheat that abc got loot and doesn’t need it the system is unfair loot should only goes to people with low level items to the point where I click on the boss if I get loot I don’t loot the boss I let it mail to me to avoid everyone whispering me.
So no personal loot does not solve the issue. Removing LFR will! No more people like OP to complain and dictated who should get loot and who shouldn’t.
No, there are starving children in the world because of people who roll need on a greed item. Think of the children next time you roll need folks.
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I’d rather they just remove the greed and mog buttons. You either pass or roll and people can stop crying about “need” (but you still have the advantages of GL in roll restrictions and trades)
If Blizzard is going to insist that all roll types are for the item itself, I’d agree. What I’d prefer is they keep transmog but have it be just for the appearance and only rolling against players who selected transmog. This way players who are only there for mog can have a realistic shot at getting items just for mog while also taking their rolls out of the contention for those who are selecting need.
It’s not exploiting. He’s allowed to roll need, so he does. End of story.
Yeah, that’s how the button should have worked all along. I’m surprised I’ve actually won one or two though.
Honestly, I think removing those would be fine. The main problem stems from the implicit expectation that Blizzard provides, but doesn’t enforce.
If they can’t enforce proper Need rolls, either remove the ability to roll Need unless you own NO item in that slot at or above that ilevel or just remove Mog/Greed rolls.
I don’t really care which (but I’d love to see the “crying” if they pick the former option)
If you remove all loot reason for the toons that come and run LFR that actually do carry the raid to killing the bosses. Then there will be no one there to get the job done and your queue times will be hours long and groups filled with nothing but failed attempts. So just be glad things get killed, loot gets dropped and people get things even if its someone that is welled geared.
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I never said I hated LFR…
Are you new here? Because I have never advocated for it’s removal in the entire time it’s been in the game.
This isn’t a viable solution because of the shortcomings of the item level system. There are certainly examples where item level will overcome anything else on a non-special piece, but any special effects or pieces without main stat frequently don’t conform to that. We’ve seen trinkets where the LFR version was better than any other trinket the person could get even at max item level for the season. Preventing players from rolling need on items where the item level is lower than the item they have in that slot will be preventing players from rolling on true upgrades.
I think you vastly overstate the number and effect of higher geared people in LFR. Since neither of us can prove one way or the other, as we don’t have actual data, I’ll leave it at that.
It’s viable, but not optimal. I’m aware of things like Rashok’s Heart, but I’d argue they are the exception and not the rule, and more people are harmed by people rolling Need on gear that are not upgrades. One of those “if you can’t play nice, you don’t get anything” sort of situations.
Maybe some sort of hybrid, where trinkets aren’t included in that restriction – or possibly anything with an “on use” or “equip” effect.
They’re probably overstating somewhat, but being in there a lot you can definitely tell the difference, especially earlier in the season when those are the folks explaining and doing the heavy lifting. (Though you can usually see the dropoff towards the end as the geared folks stop chasing the few things they were there for as well.)