is not taking advantage of a situation. The person was there for the kill he was there for the boss so he roll need which is perfectly normal and decided to sell it.
Nothing wrong if the person that won the loot want to sell it for gold. Remember the loot is not the OP’s unless he/she won the roll in the first place.
Fine then t hat player will still roll need and won and now he can DE it/vendor it or wear it for mogs and still you get zero loot vs 1. You lose the roll now you can pay 5k for the gear is your call.
You lose the roll deal with it.
I doubt that very much. You won’t win enough rolls, and when you do, lots of people will refuse the trade on principle, as this thread demonstrates. Did the loot-seller from the OP actually get that 5k? How many more runs will it take before they actually do get 5k, and at that point, how much time have they invested?
Needing to sell shouldn’t be regarded as legitimate because there is already a separate option for wanting the item to make money off it, which a fake Need roller is dishonestly refusing to use in order to subvert the priorities coded into the system. “He was there for the kill” ignores the fact that different categories of rolls exist for a reason; everyone who was there for the kill is entitled to roll in the category they actually belong to. But a critical mass of dishonest people is the reason we can’t have nice things like an actual functioning NBG system.
But that is a change that would be difficult for even Blizzard to enforce, players have no hope of it.
Idk I remember when LFR was personal loot and there was still plenty of complaints and drama.
People claiming they are being harassed because people whisper them asking for loot.
People refusing to loot the boss and having items mailed just so that they can avoid being whispered.
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I remember when people were complaining about Blizzard selling mounts. Then eventually came buying gold outright, and it seemed like a step in the wrong direction for the game. I understand it might be more profitable for them, but if they’re going down that road, why not go all the way and let us buy specific gear instead of screwing others? This incentives bad behavior. As long as you are buying gold through Blizzard it’s okay.
5k is cheap for a good upgrade.
have you crafted any gear? if so, chances are that you are tipping 1-2k just for the craft, plus the cost of the mats could be 10-15k.
I find it often works the other way.
I role need and win. someone offers me gold to buy the item.
kaching.
And this is the crux of the problem. Back in the day players generally had a fairly good idea of what was acceptable in a group and what wasn’t. But here’s the thing: every battlegroup was different as far as what was/wasn’t acceptable. However this doesn’t work at all with randomly grouped together people.
This was proven in Cata (on many many different levels). This was exactly why PL was perfect in the Looking For Raid system.
Again: I’m talking about the system throwing the group together not the manual version. I understand the whole “their group/their rules” thing with a manual put together group.
However throwing random people together in a random queue system and expecting the community to act nice together?
Again: Cata proved that this isn’t possible.
Bring PL back. Just where I’m at.
I’m actually with you here. In fact I would be fine with it being personal loot that doesn’t get advertised and is completely not tradeable in LFR. That would reduce the chance at getting loot overall, but honestly I don’t think that’s as important as trying to reduce friction in the group.
But until such a change is made, we’re stuck with group loot and cross realm gold trading. People may not like what people choose to do with loot they win under the system, but reporting them for it when it’s not going to be against ToS and will just leave a more sour taste in your mouth isn’t helpful. Hence I still think the best approach is to be happy with whatever items you will the roll on and pretend no other loot dropped.
I get what you are saying I completely do but there is literally nothing we as a playerbase can do about these types of people unless a VtK gets initiated but then they can just requeue again. It ruins the experience of a lot of people.
Turning off chat is a horrible solution in general.
I know it’s considered false reporting because you are correct. However it really shouldn’t be allowed in the queue system.
It’s different when you actually agree to those terms from an actual person or a guild. It’s one thing when the party is full agreement on it.
It’s different when those terms are forced upon you with random people every single week because there Bliz assumes that the community understands what NbG means. But when you’ve got people intentionally join the raid to just sell the gear they won to the highest bidder IN CHAT?
No.
In LFR it just needs to be PL again. Figure out a new RNG system in which you actually are able to get that piece/transmog look in a reasonable amount of time that expac regardless of what ilvl they are in the form of an untradeable token. The transmog look chances apply if you have a higher ilvls.
Bad enough folks have to roll against the transmog people, but I at least get that.
Also bring back the doggone vendors.
It would also help participation rates.
No it wouldn’t. I always got loot I didn’t need.
People would still do this with PL. It doesn’t “solve” what you think it does lol
“Problems”
There’s nothing wrong with cross realm trading lol
It’s not like the alternative does anything to change people’s ability to do this.
The confusion is coming from there not being cross realm gold trading when we were all forced into PL.
If there was cross realm gold trading back then, it would have been even more rampant, since high geared players would be forced to roll need on more items than they currently can.
It very simple, if you go into LFR thinking you’re really going to get even 1 peace of gear. You’re really expecting too much right off the bat. I have loved how for so many xpac now that people watch no matter the loot rules that have been used, if a person gets something dropped to them in LFR how there is a number of people in their box almost demanding them to pass it to them because they feel they are more deserving of it than them.
It speaks volumes. No one in LFR is there to gear up anyone else that they don’t know nor will probably never see again or play with. It is not like being in a raid team where its a team effort every night you raid to clear bosses, so it smart to gear your fellow team mates up for better chances of clearing the raid. It is LFR they just want loot, then they leave, to never be seen again.
This is why, when I get something, I get something, it is mine, I do with it as I please. I do not care what anyone else needs or wants, how low their ilvl is or anything else. I am not their to feed them gear or baby sit them. I am there to clear bosses as fast as I can and move on and collect what ever I can roll on. That is LFR and playing with the RNG of just happening to get lucky to get something.
Bliz has defined these terms by making the rolls available or not. Anything else is me forcing my terms on you (or vice versa). Especially people that go running to inspect anyone that won so they have a reason to be offended for the rest of the day.
The availability of Need in a majority of these situations can fairly easily be attributed to technical limitations. Ignoring the implication of Need=upgrade is disingenuous, but – as stated – there isn’t any kind of repercussion so… people will think you’re a jerk, but who cares, right?
(Somewhat) surprisingly, people don’t seem to like to be labeled jerks, so they invent some kind of rationalization or even “moral high ground” for them to roll Need outside of the guidelines.
Rolling on gear to sell it in a QUEUED system is something no one agreed upon. There’s a difference.
If I join a group in any other system outside of a queue system: I have a choice if that’s how someone wants to run their group. The terms were agreed upon.
I’m sorry but GOLD spec is not a valid spec in LFR. That’s called you’re just being a word I can’t say here an the forums but it end with the word hole.
People need to quit defending this kind of behavior.
If we’re going to have no repercussions for this behavior then you’re just allowing the community to eat itself.
I would argue that rolling Need on something you have no intention of doing anything with other than making Gold is basically the definition of exploiting the Need Before Greed rolling system.
That’s a Greed roll.
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Geez what’d we do to make you want to tank our loot system so bad?
The terms of people can do what they want with their loot? I haven’t seen anything else forced on LFR.
It’s none of anyone’s business what someone else’s intended use for what they win is.
The list of what you didn’t do would be far shorter…
The reality is these posts, and the posts complaining about PL when that was the loot system, exist due to the combination of the absence of a one-size-fits-all loot solution for all groups and the fact that humans suck. When you can form your own group and define your own rules, you can recruit and refine the group down to the point where everyone agrees with whatever rules you want to come up with. This means you can set your loot structure to be whatever you want within what’s possible given the loot system. For consistent groups with members all pulling in the same direction, prioritizing gaining the highest power level week over week is the sensible thing to do.
But when the group is a bunch of randoms put together without any player authority and with no expectation the group will last beyond a single outing, the suckiness of humans comes into full effect. Whatever degenerate thing a human can come up with that benefits only themself will be featured prominently enough to be noticeable and there will exist no social penalty for doing so because the next time you are in that raid, there will be 24 new people who have no idea of your past behavior.
This combination already creates a lot of conflict points for friction to occur and that friction can create quite unenjoyable situations that minimizing them in this mode makes a lot of sense. It would be a better experience for more players if Blizzard can remove as much friction as possible without sacrificing the overall experience. While I would hope most reasonable adults would be able to recognize that fully tradable group loot will result in more loot for them and thus they wouldn’t allow that potential friction to become a thing, that is clearly too lofty of an expectation.
If I can’t count on the adults in the room (since I’m assuming most of the petulant children in LFR and these posts are legally adults) to be adults, the next best thing in my opinion is for the system to remove that friction point. The only way I can think to do that is to make it so that nobody has any clue who gets what loot (except when you get a piece) and the system disallows any of it to be traded. Nobody will ever know or be able to expect to get any item anyone except for they themselves receive from the loot system. This will significantly reduce the amount of loot anyone can expect to get out of LFR, but I can think of no other way to address the friction. It’s not like LFR won’t still have plenty of opportunities for conflict due to meters and deaths and any time the group wipes…
Well, addressing the friction by disincentivizing people from going in the first place is definitely one solution.