LFR N'Zoth lmao

Community General Discussion
61

Ideally, sure. However, here’s why I prefer to run LFR.

  1. I’m only committed to three boss fights.
  2. I can queue up any time, and I can leave the queue if it takes too long. I don’t have to conform to 15+ other player’s schedules on a regular basis.
  3. If something comes up I can bail on the run without completely screwing over the other 15+ players.

Many forum posters (in general, not necessarily you) seem to forget that game design should factor in circumstances outside of the game. Yes, in an ideal world where I have no job, no wife, and no other real-life commitments, I’m running Normal, Heroic, and/or Mythic raids every week along with M10+ keystones. In reality, I’m just running LFR. I would rather be running untimed Heroic dungeons for end game gear, but Blizzard closed that avenue of advancement in MoP for reasons. It’s sad that even Timewalking dungeons give you 445 gear but “Heroic” BFA dungeons give you a handful of azerite. Even Cataclysm’s system was better than the one we have now.

62

That’s what happens when the company who designs the game sets the precedent that you don’t need to have any situational awareness or mechanical skill to beat all of the content in the game.

Blizzard should know the purpose that LFR serves, and adjust the fight accordingly so people don’t have to waste their time wiping on a boss they need to kill simply to complete a quest or see how the story ends.

63

It 10000% is

64

That’s what happens when the company decides to completely forsake 5-man content in LFD. How are players supposed to learn? 25-man content is not conducive to learning. If you screw up, there are 24 others to take up the slack, and no one says a thing. 5-mans are far better for holding players accountable because one player’s failure is glaring, and everyone is happy to pitch in to help them do better next time. When five players fail in a 25-man, where do you even start? In the best case, you identify a common point of failure, call it out, and hope that the players who failed it realized that they’re the ones being taught. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn’t.

I know it’s been years and they’re not likely to change it, but I think that Blizzard’s decision to kill five-man content as the primary form of gear acquisition for the non-raiding masses is a far bigger reason for the game’s decline than any other. As this thread makes painfully clear, LFR is unfun for raiders and non-raiders alike.

65

I agree with basically everything you said, but I’m confused what you mean by this? Mythic+ has been the primary source of gear acquisition since its inception in Legion, besides raid trinkets.

66

That’s just a simple fact.

67

Counter arguement: LFR Nzoth is easier than heroic. You cant change my mind.

1 Like
68

The amount of wipes you get on LFR N’Zoth. You are better off doing Normal. On top of that, better gear than LFR. Just watch Fatboss video if you don’t know the mechanics. There are raids for N’Zoth kills. I’ve seen some progression raids too.

Now I need to shrug off 5% wipe on M N’Zoth from my guild raid. Its becoming a torture after 245 wipes.

69

The key distinction here is “for the masses.” Mythic isn’t suitable for the masses for a couple of reasons:

  1. It’s timed. Having a new player in a timed run is no fun for anyone.
  2. It’s inaccessible through LFD. The LFD replacement for the niche formerly filled by Heroic dungeons is LFR.
70

This is an interesting observation. Of course, the “pitching in to help” when someone makes a mistake often takes the form of toxic sniping. M+ makes that worse by having a timer that discourages the social niceties needed for polite explanation and Q&A.

There is an area of the game where polite explanation is the rule rather than the exception, though. This area is tank coordination in pickup raiding, from LFR to Heroic. Most people don’t realize it, but the tanks, even in LFR, usually whisper each other to coordinate the tanking strategy. It’s not a long conversation - maybe something like “I’ll pull, taunt at 2 stacks” - but it’s enough to establish the minimal rapport needed to stay polite if a longer discussion is needed. People don’t know this because the tanks usually only switch to raid chat on the relatively unusual occasions when they decide to call out the other tank instead, maybe to get them kicked.

The reason this is interesting is because there was a time when this kind of minimal precoordination was required in 5 man content: Burning Crusade dungeons, when you typically had to mark the mobs in each pull to assign long term CC like sheep and ice trap, and occasionally things like kiting. Perhaps not coincidentally, BC was the last expansion to see a rapid rise in the subscription numbers.

Now, current M+ aficionados typically hate that idea, because it reduces the need for individual twitch skills, such as the ones melee characters need for constantly interrupting the correct casts. However, it increases the need for the minimal social coordination skills necessary to coordinate with strangers without breaking out in negativity. Maybe if Blizzard wants to promote community in the game, they should to go back to designing dungeons like the BC dungeons.

2 Likes
71

Easy fight that takes minimal coordination, that being said it’s WAAAAAY too much coordination for an LFR raider.

72

I did LFR N’Zoth on my old main once, and we went up to 4 stacks. After that experience, I swore to never do it again. I can’t even imagine going past that, nor do I want to :sob:

73

I’ve done the fight 4 times I think, 3 on this character and one on my lock.

1 - day 1 it was available, group gave up around 12-13 wipes
2 - after the nerf - 4 stacks before downing
3 - entered group with 10 stacks, downed after 3 more wipes
4 (alt) 1 shot both bosses in the wing. (Should have bought a lottery ticket this day)

Luck of the draw + explanation + kicking the ones who can’t hit the action button.

1 Like
74

“I’ve altered the stacks, pray I don’t alter them any further.” Darth Wipe

75

During part of the fight, anyone other than tanks who hit the boss gives him more Rage. More Rage meant more raid damage.
If LFR, initially, this often meant wiping from people tunneling the boss until they nerfed the mechanic.

The fight is/was basically don’t DPS boss during defensive stance or you lose. We lost a lot before the nerf.

76

I got it earlier on sunday/saturday after 2 stacks.

77

Protip. Only ever do LFR on the late Tuesday or Wednesday after reset. The raiders doing norm and heroic have all completed their weekly raid and a small sub section of that group will do LFR for mogs. If you get into one of these groups, you will find about 5 players in the pug will do about 75% of the dps and execute all the mechanics thus carrying everyone else.

78

That’s an oxymoron. :wink:

2 Likes
79

Which time?

It wasn’t that Nazgrim had to be nerfed, it’s that he received multiple rounds of nerfs and was still being nerfed 8 months after he came out.

Because the easier Blizzard made the fight, the worse people became at it.

And note that all of these changes were for LFR only. The fight never had to be nerfed on Flex, Normal, or Heroic (which are now called Normal, Heroic, and Mythic, respectively).

Round 1 - 1 month after release
Changes on Raid Finder difficulty:

  • General Nazgrim’s health has been reduced by 10%.
  • General Nazgrim’s Ravager now hits for 200,000 damage.
  • General Nazgrim now gains 1 Rage when struck in Defensive Stance (down from 2 Rage).
  • General Nazgrim now gains 2 Rage for each target struck by Heroic Shockwave’s Aftershocks (down from 3 Rage).
  • General Nazgrim now gains 2 Rage from Kor’kron Banner (down from 3 Rage).
  • Kor’kron Warshaman’s Earth Shield now heals for 2% of maximum health (down from 5%).
  • Kor’kron Warshaman’s Empowered Chain Heal now heals for 4% of maximum health (down from 10%)."

So there were a general health nerf, a nerf to his rage generation because LFR cannot help themselves but to continue attacking Nazgrim when he’s temporarily in defensive stance and you’re not supposed to attack him, and a nerf to the shaman adds who heal because LFR players cannot interrupt.

Round Two - a week after that

  • “Reduced the amount of hostile NPCs in the areas leading up to General Nazgrim on Raid Finder difficulty.”

Because LFR players complained there was too much trash.

Round Three - A month after that

  • General Nazgrim’s Sundering Blow now has a cap at 4 stacks, allowing him to gain up to a maximum of 25 Rage (50 while in Berserker Stance) on Raid Finder difficulty.
  • Kor’kron Arcweavers, Kor’kron Assassins, Kor’kron Ironblades, and Kor’kron Warshamans now have less health and deals less damage on Raid Finder difficulty."

Sundering Blow was the tank swap mechanic, and had to be nerfed because LFR tanks don’t know what a taunt is. The adds needed to be nerfed because LFR players will not switch to adds to kill them.

Round Four - Two months after that

  • General Nazgrim’s Kor’kron Banner now has less health on Raid Finder difficulty.
  • General Nazgrim’s Ravager no longer generates Rage when it strikes a player and deaks 50% less damage on Raid Finder difficulty.
  • Kor’kron Warshaman’s Healing Tide Totem now heals for 1% (down from 2%) on Raid Finder Difficulty.
  • Kor’kron Warshaman’s Empowered Chain Heal now heals for 1% (down from 4%) on Raid Finder difficulty."

More add nerfs because LFR players still won’t switch to adds to kill them, and still haven’t learned to interrupt the healer adds. Ravager was an avoidable spinning buzzsaw and LFR players don’t have the insight that standing in a giant spinning buzzsaw is a bad idea.

Round Five - Four months after that - EIGHT MONTHS AFTER RAID RELEASE

  • General Nazgrim no longer calls in an additional wave of forces at 10% health on Raid Finder difficulty.

Because if the LFR players still won’t kill or interrupt the adds, just have them stop spawning, I guess.

So what was it about the fight that required nerfs? Nothing.

But there was everything wrong with the players.

3 Likes
80

Wow this makes LFR KJ and Nzoth look easy mode. How about Durumu the forgotten and that maze mechanic that will kill you even as a 120 if not in the clear zone?

1 Like