I think there is a place for determinism for gear in WoW, such as Bullions from DF S4. But I really do not want to see all gearing move to being purely deterministic. Nothing sounds more boring to me than walking up to a gear vendor with a shopping list in hand and currency in my pocket to pick up all my gear. There is an excitement factor seeing an item drop and winning it. I just think it would be better to always know that even if you don’t get the shiny after a boss, you are working toward being able to buy a shiny after X number of weeks to soften that blow a bit. It sucks going all season and not being able to use the cool effect that’s on a BIS item that just never drops for you/you never win the roll on.
Nope. Personal loot is by far the worst system that’s ever been in the game.
You probably don’t even raid past LFR so in all honestly you should have zero input on loot systems for raiding.
I don’t have a problem outside of multiple people who don’t understand the loot systems throwing tantrums about them.
I run normal pugs and am perfectly fine with those loot rules being regular raid loot.
Technically not possible. Pretty sure you can’t roll need of you have a higher Ilvl item equipped in that slot.
Also it’s weirdly enough possible for someone to be Ilvl 600+ and still have an item under 584.
Gear has never been easier to obtain with Delves, numerous weekly quests, world quests in general, mythic 0, great vault, and soon the anniversary event. You’ll be ok loosing 1 piece of gear from lfr.
LFR is raiding as well and will use the raid loot system. Deal with it.
Only if it’s the exact same item.
Gotcha, easy fix for them to implement I would think.
Sure some dingleberries would carry around low Ilvl gear to try and snipe stuff but that’s better than going to a potentially worse system.
It’s not a fix they should implement.
Just because an item is lower ilvl doesn’t mean it’s not an upgrade.
People seriously need to learn that instead of thinking ilvl is what matters.
So mythic + groups and raid groups do not look at ilvl got it.
Love how people only want to talk in extremes. There is a distinct correlation between item level and power; absolutely nobody is claiming lower item level pieces are always better than a higher item level. On average a player will get higher performance as their item level goes up.
But for any specific item, higher item level does not always result in an upgrade. If the system enforces a strict item level limitation for rolling need, it will disallow players from rolling on upgrades in many cases. So you wind up talking out of both sides of your mouth. The reason you claim to want need to only apply to “upgrades” is because you think other uses are less important. But when faced with the reality that item level is not synonymous with upgrade many times, your only option to maintain your desire is to redefine “upgrade” in an asinine way.
My raid group looks at sims. Example being I at 611 was out dpsing some 613 and 615 people.
End of the day what you think is not an upgrade can be an upgrade.
I don’t think that’s the only option here. The most relevant option would be to define “upgrade” as intended for use in combat. As you said, this may not translate to all items, but it makes no sense to say, for instance, +2 of a stat is worth less than +1 of a stat.
The primary problem here is “on use” and “on equip” items. Those could arguably excluded from a requirement – assuming secondary stats are constant – and maintain the concept of “upgrade”. A more complex explanation does not make it asinine.
Take a class that stacks haste mastery.
They have a 580 haste mastery ring.
590 ring drops as crit vers
That 590 ring can be a dps loss
Yes, I’m talking the same stat (so +2 of haste vs. +1 of haste), and specified that with the “assuming secondary stats are constant”. In that, more clearly, secondary stats between the two items.
In reality, the concept of “upgrade” is difficult to pin down with different variables. It would require a fair bit more processing power and could be gamed. For instance, using your example, if I had two (different) 580 rings with crit already, and this third ring dropped, and did not have a greater amount of crit, this could keep them from rolling Need on said ring. However, the user could just sell one or both of those old rings.
I will, at the very least, agree that it is more complex than it appears. And true “is this an upgrade or not?” is generally impossible because different things affect different situations. So, an “upgrade” for one fight, may not be an upgrade for a different fight.
But, a base “higher ilevel = upgrade” is not precise enough for these purposes. It’s going to require more information.
If you have a 580 ring with haste and mastery and a 590 ring that’s crit/vers by equipping the crit vers ring you now have zero haste.
That’s a terrible idea. Seriously it’s not that serious. People need to stop crying about losing rolls.
I can give you multiple examples where
LFR trinkets were better than full myth track ones.
So I may not be explaining this properly.
580 ring with haste and mastery.
590 ring with haste and mastery.
590 ring is obviously an upgrade. That case is clear.
That’s a judgment call. I’m not saying whether or not it should be. You can certainly have your opinion.
Yep, I’m very aware of those, which is why I specifically mentioned items (in my initial reply to Dwelknarr) to exclude “On Use” and “On Equip” items from this type of requirement.
Well in most instances yes
Unless the 580 ring can be upgraded higher or has a proc effect.
I’m also mostly talking about trinkets as well when talking about upgrades.
An LFR tindral trinket was better than most mythic trinkets.
Even someone who has a normal piece of gear in glove slot and need on an LFR pair of gloves to get a set bonus would be an upgrade.
Why do you look at anything at all? Sims are very flawed btw.
Fair point as well… set bonuses would need to be considered. Though with the catalyst procedure that may be more or less moot. But yea, good point.