Thatâs the trade off. When itâs hard and it takes time to make a group, people arenât as easily replaced. In LFG/LFR it takes seconds to kick someone and get another person. Before LFG/LFR it took less time to try to help the person learn their class or learn the fight than to send someone back to town to spam trade chat. I remember in Wrath helping so many pugs in raid who were either messing up mechanics or playing their class wrong. Because once we killed the first boss and all got saved, we were in it together for the long haul.
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Same here. Ive only ever seen a single AFK player and that wasnt in LFR.
I use farmhud so I can more easily see where everyone is at. I know when someone isnt with group pretty quickly. and anyone can look at Details and SEE if anyone is falling behind on damage.
so yeah, Im not buying this joke that so many people are AFKing thru LFR as these guys claim.
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I donât agree.
LFG doesnât lead to leeching. Some people were scummy well before LFG was ever added.
I donât enjoy spending 30 minutes to an hour trying to hunt down people for a dungeon, especially tanks, while basically stuck waiting.
Iâm actively playing classic right now, Iâm level 41 in Classic atm. And I can tell you, for a fact. Classicâs way of doing dungeons is bloody awful.
There is no added benefits of people having to manually find people
I tell people to add me all the time if they need a healer. Since level 15 to 41, Iâve never had a single person follow up asking if I want to heal for htem again.
Most groups in Classic are just as quiet as groups in retail, except when someone screws up.
Youâll find light hearted and friendly people in both classic and retail.
Not having an LFG tool doesnât make the âExperienceâ better.
Iâm here to do a dungeon, not have a social gathering.
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Why do people make LFR sound so much worse than it is? If only there were other difficulties for youâŚ
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Its crazy that it should be expected that people put in effort to earn their stuff and that the quick automated systems benefit those who wish to leech off of otherâs work.
There is a difference between not being that good, which I ague Classic supports those players far more because they are much harder to replace, compared to those who you can see in details only auto attacked an entire encounter or used maybe one spell just to pull ahead of the others just enough to avoid suspicion.
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People still leave all the time in classic if they only want one thing, or donât like how things are going.
This isnât a trade off, this just makes it worse to try to replace anyone who does decide to leave.
Entire dungeons have been ruined because the tank randomly decided that he was angry a dps rolled on a str/stam item (A melee dps, so legit) and decided to just leave.
Iâve seen dps just drop out because what they wanted on a boss didnât drop over halfway through the dungeon.
with the LFG system, you can just replace these people can call it a day. and keep going forward. Without it, you either have to do it gimped, one man down, or stop everything and basically start over due to how quickly mobs respawn.
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I hear that.
I saw two players sitting by an elite when BFA dropped. I tried to join their little party so we could group the beast, they rejected.
Screw that, Im a BM monk. So it took a bit but I soloed the thing.
these two chumps who had denied to let me join their group sure made sure they got in a shot to get the credit, though.
yeah, Im NEVER playing a game where Im required to manually find players to group with.
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I have once or twiceâŚ
is kinda annoying
The system is not flawed.
The fact that multiboxing bots are allowed is the issue with OP. Just my take on it.
So kick them. Or run Normal.
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It absolutely does. Of course some people were scummy before those systems ever came about, but the number of people who afk compared to manually formed raids is astronomically different.
I notice your entire argument seems to go back to on specific point. Convenience.
That is the problem. LFG/LFR is too convenient to the point that people mean nothing at all as I have said multiple times now. Its everything PAST that âconvenienceâ that is the problem. Its what that âconvenienceâ creates that is the problem.
Its far too easy to get into a group that it promotes people not trying their best and just costing for the free loot. Its far too easy to replace people that you have situations where people are constantly kicked over the most minor of reasons. Its far too convenient to the point that it has seriously negatively impacted the community and social aspect of this game.
Its almost like people have different schedules and lives, that they possibly might not be on the same time as you or play as much or as little as you do.
I 100% disagree with this. Groups in Classic are far more communicative than Retail hands down. The most conversation you get in Retail is âHey, do you need that item?â. Even kicks are done silently without a word.
No, I am sorry but I disagreeâŚ
This I wonât disagree with, but I will again state its FAR more frequent in Classic than Retail. Retail is FAR more quiet than Classic. I am not saying friendly, sociable, people do not exist in Retail they are just much, much, much farther and fewer between.
Yes⌠Yes it does. You are far less likely to deal with a flat out afker/slacker. You are far less likely to get kicked from the group for minor mistakes or for struggling. Groups takes far more time and effort to form and thus put far more time and effort into sticking together and seeing their task through to completion. Groups are far more sociable because of the above, more willing to discuss what to do or help others out.
Having the LFG tool absolutely makes the experience worse and that is not even getting into the âlootâ side of things with the fact that we have an absurd number of different difficulties of content which, thanks to Titan Forging and Warforging, also adds to the number of people afking through LFR in hopes of a good TF who donât actually want to be there and because its so easy to get into they happily afk through it because it takes not time or effort on their part.
And I am here to have a GOOD Dungeon Experience in an MMORPG, a type of game that is suppose to be built around social experience but is constantly being watered down by those who want a single player experience.
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Although I really havenât been inside LFR for a good minute, I didnât see any of that either.
Guess itâs really dependent upon the time in which someone queues and gets in? Idk - if itâs happening, well thatâs very unfortunate indeed. 
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I havenât seen that at all in my experience, especially when leveling. When it takes 30-40 min to get the group together and get to the dungeon, I havenât seen anyone just bounce after an early boss because an item didnât drop. I get that happens in BRD but thatâs kind of different.
Also people rage quitting just reinforces the importance of a guild. Currently there is no reason to be in a guild unless you Mythic raid. It kind of sucks as guilds used to be a big part of the game.
There are goods and bads to both methods. At this point I donât think Blizz is going to remove LFG/LFR, but Iâve thought for a while now that LFR needs some changes to make it more engaging.
MMORPGâs are built around player interaction and community. Why do you think old school runescape still has any players whatsoever? Itâs because of the community and the RPG aspect. WoW lost a lot of subscribers because they removed the social interaction out of a game that thrived and fed off of it. Better or worse now is subjective in terms of it being a good game, but in terms of providing a better RPG experience; no retail isnât even close to classic.
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Then you and I have vastly different experiences with groups.
Classic groups can be just as bad as Retail groups, and yes. I significantly value not having to waste 3 hours to do a single bloody dungeon, over your interest in somehow being more âCommunityâ focused, when it doesnât actually amount to anything.
You will never convince me that somehow spamming the LFG chat / Trade chat, and having to wait 30 minutes, to an hour for a tank, while not being able to do anything else, before you even get to start the dungeon, is somehow âBetterâ than the LFG system.
You exaggerate the issues with LFG to try to make it worse off than it is.
But let me tell you what, my complaints of the classic system are -not- exaggerated.
You can have a good dungeon experience and have LFG, or simply ignore LFG and go do things on your own.
LFG and LFR are very useful tools for the game. Waiting around spamming an LFG chat, thatâs being spammed by people wanting to just chat, or meme all day, or just troll is not what Iâd call an ideal way to find groups.
And no, Iâm not talking about trade chat (Though you can advertise there to, good luck still finding people in a reasonable amount of time) LFG is also flooded by people being general nuisances.
The more I play classic, the more thankful I am for the systems we currently now have in place in Retail, to make a 3 hour headache, be 25-45 minutes at most and move on with your day.
Dungeons without an LFG system, is nothing but a headache.
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Which is ultimatelyâŚlike your opinion and you are making it sound like itâs a fact. This game was built on player interaction and retail has done everything in its power to reduce the need to actually have to talk to people. Yes, I agree, they are never going to remove any of those things, and thatâs why they brought back classic. That doesnât make one system better than the other factually.
Also your opinion and I believe you are exaggerating. You state earlier that you have had such vastly different experiences with classic groups than the person you are replying to.
Thatâs based on your experiences and doesnât make a system better for everyone; it makes it better for your wants and needs. I have had none of the experiences you have talked about in classic, only good and friendly ones. Itâs all a matter of opinion, both system has pros and cons, not one is correct.
Personally, I think your opinion stinks.
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What? So your experience that nobody else in here has experienced it not exaggerated, but the experience that everyone sees in LFG on a daily basis is exaggerated? Ok pal.
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Dungeons are not social activities. (Except in the circumstances in which you before hand state itâs a social thing, like in an RP guild, then you can probably call it a social activity.)
They are instanced content that simply requires a group to do.
If I wanted to be social, Iâd go to an RP gathering.
spending 30-60 minutes trying to get a group together to do a 30-40 minute dungeon, is ridiculous.
The only reason I want to do this dungeon is because I want something out of it. Or I want experience, or Iâm just looking to do a dungeon.
Iâve had social dungeons. Sure, but those were before hand understood to be social dungeons, usually dungeons with my RP guild clearing out an area.
But if Iâm just trying to get quests in a dungeon done? Nah.
Also, Iâm not leaving my RP guild that I like, but is inconsistent with dungeons (Because ya know, RP guilds have different priorities) to get -slightly- faster groups together.
Just being in a guild doesnât gaurentee people are around, or actually want to do what your trying to do.
I can understand wanting a community aspect to the game back, but I donât consider adding extreme wait times to wanting to get dungeon quests done, nearly worth what you seem to want.
And it still doesnât even help, people are still not social in classic, thereâs plenty of people you never see again, that join, say nothing and leave the moment the dungeons done. Or leave early when they either lose out on an item they felt they should have gotten, or didnât see an item drop on an early boss that they wanted.
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There is no discussion to be had when you request an activity that I enjoy to be removed from the game.
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