Lfr is bad for the game

[Zandrae-wyrmrest-accord (Zandrae)]

25 man raiding took away a lot of the epicness of 40 man raids.

[Hadrimmdar-silvermoon (Hadrimmdar)]

that was so sad. I played LFR in those days and it was painful watching people ignore that mechanic

[Esdeathx-area-52]

If they took away raiding ever, I can assure you, that would be basically it’s death.

[Esdeathx-area-52]

Nobody is hiding nothing from you.

You have an opportunity to raid, you just choose not to.

Big difference

Edit: Your post also represents opinions(Bashiok)
You’re discarding another persons opinion(GC) because you disagree and are incapable of proving the opposite.

You’re the very definition of entitlement and being a freeloader.

You’re a social justice warrior.

[Abruek-turalyon (Abruek)]

Now I get what you’re saying, your Discordant Design thread was flawless (sad it was deleted) and I agree with you, those are the issues the game is facing.

Though raids are the center of the game, but they aren’t the center of the issues. Professions got trashed because the development team thought we saw them as too necessary or a problem if we didn’t have them. Classes got destroyed because the development team thought we were struggling with too many abilities, so they trimmed and trimmed. Content got cut because the development team thinks if they can’t push an expansion out every two years, they’re failing as game creators, resulting in unfinished products and content cuts.

Feedback is genuinely ignored from players now because they think they’ve been listening to us and making changes accordingly, but they’re getting their feedback more from themselves as players rather than the actual playerbase, thus they’re in a constant stance of wondering if they should or shouldn’t listen.

[Tyriellais-thunderhorn (Tyriellais)]

I agree that the dev team is far too insular. Part of the problem is indeed the players. Or more specifically, human nature. People are most vocal when they are upset. So feedback has been universally negative, and some really good ideas have been trashed just as hard as the really bad ones. This has developed a mindset in the dev team that all or most of the players don’t know what they’re talking about, and shouldn’t be listened to. “You think you want it, but you don’t”. And in some cases, they’re right.

Personally, I think the day we get to iLevel inflation being the biggest problem the game is facing is the day that a WoW expansion will be dubbed game of the year. There are far more, far higher priority problems to deal with. And you can even handle inflation quite neatly without stat squishing at all. As a side note, the game economy would be FAR healthier with constant inflation than it would with the current attempts at deflation. When one player has 3 gold and another has 3000, drawing money out of the economy and deflating it will exacerbate this difference and widen the gap between rich and poor, as the poor player will run through his money immediately, while the richer player will drain his larger account much slower. End result: Poor player loses 3g and is down to nothing, the rich player loses 4g and is down to 2996g. Economy is much less healthy. On other other hand, if you inflate rewards for content, so that a quest that used to reward 30s now gives 30g, suddenly a few quests in and the poor player has 300g, and the rich player has 3300g. Much closer to a balanced system (they could even scale out gold for a new tier currency like Platinum or something, worth 100g just like 1g is worth 100s, and scrap copper entirely). Granted, those who play the markets and fully utilize alternative sources will always be wealthier, but it is an overall healthier system than the current idea of “drain all the gold from the economy”.

A similar problem could address the need for a stat squish. Create a modifier for gear based on expansion. Instead of iLevel 300 gear, we’d be currently using iLevel 8-300 gear. Which treats our gear as iLevel 300 against foes from the 8.X content. Against foes from 7.X content, it treats it as an order of magnitude higher. Against foes from 9.X content, it’s treated as an order of magnitude lower, because we’re expected to replace it with iLevel 9-001 gear. This creates an effective squish, as current content is all scaled to current numbers. You’d only see damage numbers in the billions if you were going through old content with gear from way later. In which case, what’s the harm?

Granted, this is an unpolished and unrefined system, but it’s also just one from the top of my head. There are other ways to handle constant growth than always following it with a squish. And some of these ways would be overall healthier for the game.

Regardless, I don’t think that LFR is responsible for the rampant growth that troubles you, nor do I think that it should be removed. I would like to see a version of Normal that could be queued. And I would ALSO like to see a revamp to the LFG system that allows you to build a raid without immediately losing the ability to do anything else in the game, as I think that is one of the biggest obstacles to non queued content currently. As soon as your group hits 6 people, you can’t do any quests or anything.

[Abruek-turalyon (Abruek)]

Yeah makes sense, but regardless if it’s a smaller problem or not, it’s still a problem, and a problem the itemization team should’ve been dealing with for quite some time. Simply brushing it off while there are other, definitely larger, issues and problems, will only do harm in terms of what the team looks at. Giving them everything at the same time allows them to decide what and when something needs to be looked at, and frankly I think they’ve never seen power creep as a big issue.

Now again, LFR shouldn’t be straight up removed, it’s good for a lot of groups of players, but the “raid levels” should be free of it when regarding the overall loot table. LFR isn’t the sole issue, but as long as it’s in the “gear spectrum” it’ll be treated that way, so removing LFR the “spectrum” would definitely stomp out the growth tremendously.

Personally they should make less difficulties overall, since many of then are pretty pointless now, like Dungeons. Normal is for leveling, Heroic is just there as a bridge between Normal and Mythic, and Mythic could easily just be the heroic difficulty.

[Smashy-burning-legion]

You understand about 30% of the active playerbase is progressing through Mythic, right?

L U L

How many people gets Cutting Edge? let me guess, or let me google it hold on…

Yup 1%.

30% people in the World are progressing through Mythic? I didn’t know 2/8 counts son. If you are anything under 5 That’s not progressing, specially this late in the patch when almost the next raid is about to open.

Because pugs are getting 4 M kills. cross realm.

[Abruek-turalyon (Abruek)]

It’s actually 2%, but yes, and if you’re 2/8 you’ve progressed, I don’t see what you’re point is?

If you are anything under 5 That’s not progressing

What? If you’ve progressed five bosses in, that’s progression.

Edit: Oh, you probably saw my Paladin was only 5/8M. I have my Fetid, Zul, and G’huun kills on Thiccloin-Turalyon.

[Smashy-burning-legion]

It’s actually 2%,

Oh no 2%? My mistake buddy… 2% of the player base.

What? If you’ve progressed five bosses in, that’s progression

Nah son, outgearing the content with 385+ isn’t progressing it’s called downing the boss when it’s a joke.

Do I even need to mention the nerfs? not just the fully 385+ ilvl. I’m not talking about you personally btw, don’t take it as an attack. I’m speaking in General.

Facerolling the content when you outgear it isn’t progressing… What matter is when it’s relevant and a thing.

Pugs are killing up to 4 Bosses in M Uldir cross realm /Face rolling it. at this late it’s not progressing.

[Abruek-turalyon (Abruek)]

It’s still progression though, it takes some people longer to learn fights, and sure the gear definitely helps, but it’s just a fact.

You can’t say someone is 4/8M and not have progressed, progression isn’t locked to a guild, but rather the individual player.

Do you want me to change my wording? I can say 30% of the player base is “doing” Mythic Uldir and it’d still be the same.

[Smashy-burning-legion]

Do you want me to change my wording? I can say 30% of the player base is “doing” Mythic Uldir and it’d still be the same.

Just stop please dude,

We know that 1% or 2% in the world gets Cutting Edge. that’s the true Mythic raider.

And no, maybe you mean 30% are doing M Taloc? facerolling him on alts? to get the weapon? sure that’s true.

But don’t put numbers out of nowhere. because this late in the Patch when people are in full 385+ + the nerfs - even 6/8 means nothing.

[Abruek-turalyon (Abruek)]

Sure it may be “true Mythic raiders”, I’m not sure if you are though, but regardless being 6/8M speaks at a much larger volume of significance than being similarly progressed on Normal or Heroic. As far as I’m concerned, if you raid current Mythic content, you’re a mythic raider.

[Smashy-burning-legion]

I’m not sure if you are though,

What you mean by that? I play mainly on EU, and I have 3 accounts. I’m not here to brag or to show off… who is better or who is the trash player.

I’m just saying facts. I never claimed to be a god or whatever, nah i’m just a washed up scrub.

if you raid current Mythic content, you’re a mythic raider.

False, Like I said - Facerolling something doesn’t mean you are actually what it means.

You don’t get the point, I’ll say it again,

Repeat it with me:

If you Outgear the current content this late in the patch. You are not progressing - The gear just helps you roflstomp the place nothing much + Crossrealm/Nerfs on the bosses.

[Abruek-turalyon (Abruek)]

And the reason why people are still “progressing” is because that large amount of free gear doesn’t make them good. Which is why they’re still progressing, I’m not saying they’re going to over come the bosses that require gear and skill, but it’s not like they’re doing nothing at all unlike others.

Why are you even trying to argue this point with me? Someone suggested cutting out Mythic, but I stated over 30% of the playerbase is doing Mythic.

[Smashy-burning-legion]

but I stated over 30% of the playerbase is doing Mythic.

Source?

30% people are doing mythic you mean even the 1/8 counts? you are giving me this number based on what?

I want the link that shows 30% people in the US are progressing through Mythic Uldir and At least have Mythrax down.

Anything under Mythrax isn’t progressing dude stop kidding yourself you said you killed M Ghuun on one of your toons. so you know where I’m coming from.

People going in Mythic and killing couple bosses when they outgear it with 385+ isn’t progressing. they are taking the advantage of gear by a lot. PLUS the nerfs on the bosses & CrossRealm.

CrossRealm pugs are getting 4/8 M Uldir easily, these guys aren’t actual Mythic raiders you know that and I know that. don’t count them with your 30%.

I’m not sure how many times do I have to repeat.

[anon2121503]

though to be fair, all gear acquisition and scale is based purely off the raids.

Everything in the game is based purely off the raids. The raids get more attention than the entire rest of the expansion. Professions are trashed, classes destroyed, content cut, feedback ignored…

Oh, but the raids get tuned. They get adjusted from feedback. They get oodles of new resources and art. They matter.

Maybe Blizz should scrap raiding all together and remember that this is WORLD of Warcraft, not Raid of Warcraft.

well…freaking…said.

[Abruek-turalyon (Abruek)]

If you bend the definition of progression to be “last boss or it doesn’t matter”, you’d be making sense. But there are terrible players out there progressing themselves and their guild through even Heroic bosses, it’s not progression for you, it is for them.

For what you’re saying only 4.2% (Accounts with Zul defeated) of the global playerbase is progressing.

[anon2121503]

If you Outgear the current content this late in the patch. You are not progressing - The gear just helps you roflstomp the place nothing much + Crossrealm/Nerfs on the bosses.

+1
In legion when my monk was overgeared for heroics I could run MistWeaver and literally tank, keep the DPS alive and do a crap ton of DPS myself.
I certainly wouldnt call myself a ‘heroic’ player because Im overgeared for the content Im doing so its easy just because I am.
If I were in a mythic raid for the simple fact that I paid for carries and got good gear that way, I wouldnt call myself a mythic raider.
Id call myself a cheater.

[Smashy-burning-legion]

If you bend the definition of progression to be “last boss or it doesn’t matter”, you’d be making sense. But there are terrible players out there progressing themselves and their guild through even Heroic bosses, it’s not progression for you, it is for them.

For what you’re saying only 4.2% (Accounts with Zul defeated) of the global playerbase is progressing.

I’ll ask you this one more time,

How many people in the US gets Cutting Edge? you are wrong btw on the 2% and I can link you the source if you want. it’s 1%, According to M G’huun.

How many people have Mythic Taloc killed? yup more than 20% does that means these guys are Mythic raiders? or progressing? as you claimed?

Yes you said 5/8 but again, Cross realm pugs are getting 4/8, by just stomping the bosses because they are outgearing the content this late in the expansion.

THEY ARE NOT REAL MYTHIC RAIDERS STOP COUNTING THEM.