Lfr is bad for the game

[anon2121503]

What evidence do you want?

• PROOF that any substantial amount of subs were lost BECAUSE of LFR

• PROOF that very low numbers of players are playing LFR

• PROOF that LFR actually ‘harms’ the game in any meaningful way…which does NOT include rump hurt of ‘real’ raiders.

[Esdeathx-area-52]

Your reasons are mere speculation and personal experience. Pandas are silly is a dumb shallow reason to quit over. Not a single person quit over that.

There’s a reason the numbers simply started taking a nosedive after 4.3 release and never recovered. Because LFR as a feature was introduced and damaged character progression and pigeonholed regular raiders into doing it to help their raid because of the higher ilvl(your stupid don’t like it,don’t do it argument holds bo water). It was a power up and if you cared about your team and was a responsible human being, you’d find anything to pull more weight in your raid.
Next CRZ and more cross realm interaction were introduced as artificial bandages to patch up the lack of social interaction.

You need to stop with logical fallacies, AGAIN,because you fail at it yourself.

You fail to prove me why LFR improved the game. The only thing you prove is that you’re the cause of people hating the feature because you get carried(9000 latency).

You’re ignorant and entitled and only seek personal benefits out of LFR. You don’t care about the overall health of the game. You have proven that much.

[anon2121503]

Personally I just want to know how they think LFR has harmed WOW, the community, etc. In what ways?

I think a lot of the things that people are blaming LFR for aren’t LFR problems at all, but people are blaming LFR because they don’t like it for whatever reason.

Exactly.
They think they are above LFR while playing LFR for the sole reason that they got invited to a ‘real’ raiding group.

[anon2121503]

Your reasons are mere speculation and personal experience.

WOW that kettle/pot meter just blew 7 gaskets.

[Mokrawr-area-52 (Mokrawr)]

Your reasons are mere speculation and personal experience.

Your reason is just as much speculation and personal experience.
Me saying subs took a dive because nobody cared about Deathwing is just as solid as you saying LFR caused it. Unless you have hard numbers and proof from Blizz it will only ever be speculative and nothing more.
Also, imo, LFR improved the game for players like myself who felt excluded from the main plot by organized raiding. Let me speculate again, much like you are doing, and say LFR made the game better for more players than it hurt by including everyone in the fight against the big bad of each expansion.

Also:

You’re ignorant and entitled and only seek personal benefits out of LFR being removed. You don’t care about the overall health of the game. You have proven that much.

[Esdeathx-area-52]

Q1 right after lfr released.
People consumed lfr
Q2 people started leaving.

Not rocket science.

[anon2121503]

You need to stop with logical fallacies, AGAIN,because you fail at it yourself.

wow…just wow…
you have yet to provide a single iota of PROOF of your laughable assertions…then have the audacity to make this statement.
Unreal.

You’re ignorant and entitled and only seek personal benefits out of LFR

“You’re ignorant and entitled and only seek personal benefits out of normal”

“You’re ignorant and entitled and only seek personal benefits out of heroic”

sounds about right…

[Esdeathx-area-52]

Correct! So we’re both speculating. Finally someone that gets it.

So now, I presented a theory why subs went down, now it is up to you to present why.

I identified a major feature as ONE of the causes. Now you rebuke.

[Paeldryth-hyjal (Paeldryth)]

If LFR is bad for the game, why does the 2nd place MMO also have it?

What MMO without it is better than WoW and FF14?

[Mokrawr-area-52 (Mokrawr)]

Q1 right after lfr released.
People consumed lfr
Q2 people started leaving.

Not rocket science.

I wonder if the looming lack of new content had anything to do with this… hmm, nah, must be that nasty LFR!

[Esdeathx-area-52]

No proof.

Again you just ramble on.

[anon2121503]

So now, I presented a theory why subs went down, now it is up to you to present why.

HAHAHAHAHAAA!
that is NOT the way it works, son
YOU make the claim/assertion that means its on YOU to prove your case…not someone else.

[Mokrawr-area-52 (Mokrawr)]

YOU make the claim/assertion that means its on YOU to prove your case…not someone else.

It’s clear Esdeathx is using Anti-vaxx logic to argue their point. You literally can’t win with someone like this.

[anon2121503]

Q1 right after lfr released.
People consumed lfr
Q2 people started leaving.

Not rocket science.

I wonder if the looming lack of new content had anything to do with this… hmm, nah, must be that nasty LFR!

yeah.
It cant possibly be bad content and grinding that more and more players are hating.
its GOT to be that evil LFR

[anon2121503]

YOU make the claim/assertion that means its on YOU to prove your case…not someone else.

It’s clear Esdeathx is using Anti-vaxx logic to argue their point. You literally can’t win with someone like this.

Science guy: “I have a theory I call evolution…but i have NO idea out to support it…so you guys do it for me”

[Abruek-turalyon (Abruek)]

Yeah, we really don’t need normal anymore, it kinda just was there originally as a test in SoO for group size scaling raids.

If they remove it and lower the item level Heroic and Mythic drop as well as the respective mechanics to not need that high amount of gear, the game could definitely benefit not having to grow so out of control.

I was just on the PTR and set up my 384 Paladin in full 415 gear(414 with neck), and my HP grew from 160k to about 250k, which is insane for one tier, considering Crucible of Storms is supposed to be like ToV with another slight increase. By the expansion’s end we’re likely to be at 400k, which is a terrifyingly fast amount of growth. Essentially cementing the fact they are very likely to do another stat squish. Which is a huge issue.

[Vicktoria-area-52 (Vicktoria)]

I give you props for keeping it up as long as you have but you can’t reason with this person. They can’t seem to see beyond, I’m right. For 24 hours now going on with the same tired argument.

My advice to you is ignore them.
Trolls need to be fed.

[Zandrae-wyrmrest-accord (Zandrae)]

Yeah, we really don’t need normal anymore, it kinda just was there originally as a test in SoO for group size scaling raids.

If they remove it and lower the item level Heroic and Mythic drop as well as the respective mechanics to not need that high amount of gear, the game could definitely benefit not having to grow so out of control.

I was just on the PTR and set up my 384 Paladin in full 415 gear(414 with neck), and my HP grew from 160k to about 250k, which is insane for one tier, considering Crucible of Storms is supposed to be like ToV with another slight increase. By the expansion’s end we’re likely to be at 400k, which is a terrifyingly fast amount of growth. Essentially cementing the fact they are very likely to do another stat squish. Which is a huge issue.

I think that in so far as LFR goes, some of the nerfs that are applied have to do with dumbing down cheap trick mechanics that are hard to cat herd undisciplined pugs into doing or first time seeing it players to pick up.

Gimmicks like the mogu twins drawing thing, Lei Shen’s lightning things that needed to not hit the ground, and other annoyances of that type.

I think upping the difficulty of LFR slightly, renaming it to normal, and lowering heroic difficulty a little would be a better solution, where you can queue in or run it in a guild/premade group without the stat boost wipe lfr feature and perhaps an extra loot drop off each boss tonincentivise people forming premades instead of queing.

I remember my guild running LFR in Cata. We ran it 6 times in 2 weeks. 1/3 of us hopped on mains, the rest on alts, the mains got the gear, then we swapped. Repeat. After that we didn’t do it anymore. People ran it on alts on their own time.

[Shaftogar-saurfang (Shaftogar)]

The long term plan is absolutely to be squishing every couple of xpacs. They’ve already said as much. The main reason BfA’s one was a mess was because they were implementing an entirely new system to make future squishes both easier and more reliable. For one thing, a squish is only going to affect the most recent xpac going forward (ie. the 110-120 leveling zones currently) so they’ll have a far smaller window to need to solve problems in.

[Varb-twisting-nether (Varb)]

They don’t give us those numbers and the idea that real raiders feel burned because people do LFR and are seeing content they don’t deserve is 100% a myth. I have never heard anyone, ever, say or write that. It’s just people projecting who felt left out making the claim that people were taking sick pleasure in excluding them.

Give me the hard numbers that prove otherwise.