affirmative claims*
You can’t prove a negative even if it is a ‘hard’ claim.
Also where exactly have you proven your point?
I must be blind, or you’re still rambling on with poor deflection attempts and copy pasta.
just look at the sub numbers in cata, not that hard, 4th quarter subs then where the only time below 10 million subs, lfr never caused the game to lose or gain subs.
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With out LFR i would be gone 100% there is your proof ![:smile:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/smile.png?v=6" ":smile:")
.
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Citation and link please.
You’re a drop in the sea and too small of a sample. Nice try.
Sure i am Timmy.
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Peace all WoW BFA calls again woot woot!
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When confronted with logic,you resort to insults.
We all know who loves doing that.
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im not your slave, go look it up for yourself you lazy peon
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No,you made a claim,therefore provide proof please.
Otherwise you’re just rambling just like the priest.
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https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/18695100881
not that hard you lazy oaf
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Yep LFR saved WoW! lol thank you for that logic sir now of to wow i go ty mage!
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The onus is on the person making the claim. The status quo is that LFR exists.
The arguments being made ate that:
- LFR has harmed the game.
- People have left the game due to LFR.
You have provided a single quote from an ex-blizzard employee who…
- Quit five years ago, sourced two something years ago.
- He clearly states he has not played the game in years. He left in 2013. That was Mists of Pandaria.
- He clearly stated he does not know if his opinion is still applicable as he hadn’t played in years.
- During his heyday, during an expansion that was a flop and another that started ad a flop until drastic QOL changes were made, LFR was poorly optomized. Loot was a nightmare in its first iteration. LFR was extremely inaccessible at the start of MoP, requiring ilevels I recall that were quite high. I remember having to craft epics/do dailies to grind rep via dailies which gated other dailies, or buying epics off the AH to boost up to entry LFR level. I recall running heroics was not enough to get in range of early MoP LFR. Neither iteration were great. The loot nightmare was rather unfair in the first iteration and the second was inaccessible because the initial ilevel bar was a bit too high. Things have changed in the last five years.
Please tell us how you think that LFR has harmed the game.
An ex dev saying, three years after he quit, that things in LFR don’t feel epic doesn’t hold much water. The feeling of epic is not really quantifiable. It’s subjective. He may think LFR doesn’t feel epic.
I may think all current raiding doesn’t feel epic. 25 man raids have nothing on a team of 40 underdogs in blues in a guild coalition killing ragnaros for the first time and screaming on voice chats while our hands burned from sheer adrenaline. I may feel the mechanics of modern fights feel too gimmicky and like cheap tricks compared to something like the hard mode versions of Yogg. It’s not really quantifiable.
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Q4 '11 says 10.2M
Q4 '12 says below 10M <----- MoP was released in this quarter.
Where do you see below 10M?
Only in Q3 which was caused by content drought.
And just to make a point, LFR was released along 4.3 WHICH WAS THE LOWEST SUB TIME IN CATA.
You also fail to provide the negative claim.
if you think cata was a flop please tell me what you think wod was and bfa is, those sub numbers are correct as well and lfr was implemented with dragon soul and even if that lfr caused the numbers to drop to 9 million compared to today’s under five million subs, i would say under 2 but im being generous here
What are you even talking about? You have taken the side supporting the OPs claim that LFR has hurt WOW. The onus is on you to back up that claim. That’s your job. It’s my job as someone who does not agree with the initial claim to rebuke your supporting evidence.
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Nah. Your job is to rebuke his claim with evidence. Like any normal discussion. You have failed to provide any.
actually it was Q3 '12 that mop was released, Q2 '12 was the content drought, lfr was released in 2011, still in the double digit millions
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Error 404: Reasonings supporting claims to rebuke not found.
Also be mindful that Cata’s numbers lie: People did the year subscription agreement for the sparkle pony/free Diablo III. There were people who quit for a while because of the problems at the start of Cata and came back later.
Likewise, there were people who felt pandas were silly. However, there were also people who quit because many things were gated in MoP behind artificially slowed daily quest rep grinds and high entry ilevel reqs for stuff like LFR. Consequently people quit in droves. To improve quality if life they gave us items that double rep gains across our accounts at revered, work orders on the farm for rep gains, and warbringers/scouts who dropped BoA rep tokens. Unfortunately people had already quit. They tried to bring people vack with Timeless Isle and its catch-up mechanics. WoD and outland nostalgia hype brought them back. Notice there were few if any dailies in WoD: they were so poorly recieved in MoP that they backed off it completely.
Storywise and gameplaywise Blizzard reacted to things being bad and salvaged MoP. It’s no Wrath but in hindsight it was better than Cats despite its flaws.
Before WoD, Cataclysm was considered the worst expansion ever. Wrath was seen as the pinnacle, with BC and Vanilla being held in high regard.
WoD took Cataclysm’s place. Though I still made 12 million gold during that expansion so I might put it above Cata and even BFA because at least I was logging in on all my toons every day. The last day I logged in was right before the new year. I went to visit my WoW RP partner IRL. We played Ingress and watched Battlestar Galactica instead of playing WoW even though she has good internet. I digress.
Blizzard no longer releases sub data. Every expansion we get a spike of players coming back. Legion seemed to be viewed in high regard. Blizzard pulled out all the stops to try and save their franchise with big darn heroes moments turned up to 11. I suspect it got WoD starting numbers. Things like Artifact Weapons, alt unfriendliness, lack of PvP focus, a lack of meaningful content but lots of busywork and too much RNG especially with regards to legendaries pushed people away. Profession changes weren’t that great.
BfA at the moment is not doing very well. People are leaving.
Artifact Power 2.0 / Az armor took all the fun and soul out of the artifact power system, not to mention the QoL changes. There’s a lot if artificial time gating and rep grinds. This isn’t like vanilla, bc, or wrath where you could grind like crazy for as long as you wanted to make progress. You only make tiny and arguably unsatisfying amounts of progress each day, especially at revered where the bsr barely moves. World quests have a slight bit more variety than dailycraft but it gets old pretty fast. (I thought they were going to make rep account-wide? It’s really alt unfriendly.) The fact warfronts are not available but one week a month, world quest gear caps out too low to qualify someone for them, and the fact that for a while some accounts were and may still be bugged to only get loot off the last bosses of dungeons meaning drowning in az armor instead of useful things. I haven’t done much in game since logging in to get heritage armor, so they might have fixed some of those QoL problems. What I’m seeing is the Azerite system isn’t fun, the raid is not out yet, people don’t like the RNG, and that getting the same loot piece instead of something useful are all unfun. Bad luck can delay gearing for a month, at least for someone who doesn’t have a reliable connection to run mythics with.
For numbers we basically have a Sin wave. The subscriptions increase before an expansion, then depending on how well the period after launch goes, the number decreases, then I increases in smaller amounts as patches come out and decreases as content gets stale or people get irritated.
I think people are irritated at things like the most recent patch dropping but the raid being delayed and the stuff that isn’t fun like so much RNG.
Come to think of it. Wow token prices may be a moderately reliable way to guage how the game is doing. Moderately because people will buy them to get stuff in Overwatch or other games too. Bur even with that, it’s still telling.
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