I did 3 dungeons on the PTR and didn’t notice a single problem with the dungeons, in fact they felt easier than infernos now. I even did them with pugs.
I’m sorry but, I don’t kick people cause of their gear I kick them because of their performance. This can be ranging anywhere from people doing 5k dps single target (Yes this is true) to people deliberately messing up mechanics that causes the group to wipe (I’m looking at you MC beam from 2nd boss in Blackrock Caverns).
Say it louder for the people in the back.
"Well, that is most likely because there are very few bad players playing on the PTR. The majority of players on the PTR have more than two brain cells to rub together.
I do, especially if it’s PvP gear that’s not gemmed or enchanted, or if it’s super low ilvl and they cheated their way into the dungeon by keeping BoEs in their bag to exploit the system and bypass the ilvl requirements.
I also do the same.
If people come into a dungeon with PvP gear I give them the benefit of the doubt and give them like 3-4 trash packs or a boss to not be a 10k dps andy. I’ve personally seen a bit players who have some PvP gear do good or good enough numbers where they aren’t making the run unbearable.
Or you can follow Moist/LtDan’s lead and just pay 400k gold in a GDKP to buy your gear.
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I’m sorry, but are you my financial advisor for WoW? Or are we married? Since neither is the case, why should how and where I spend my gold in a video game be of any concern to you?
Tell that to pre-raid bis lists.
Except you are saying that people DO do that to skirt around the requirements.
No its not.
No its griefing. Its just griefing and your argument for justifying it is the same thing racists use against certain races. Its a bad argument and shows your true nature.
There are? but thats not the point. For melee players the biggest boost is the weapon damage, the weapon speed, and the primary stat boost you get. So for Ret the pre-raid bis is actually the Ruthless Gladiator’s Bonegrinder which doesnt actually take a rating to get just conquest points earned during the season. You can get the sword or axe as well so long as the speed is the same. So no, its not all pve while in pve. Even the pvp sets are beneficial with providing things like +70 strength. so long as you just get the 2pc.
I didnt say you did, I said that the post that you were responding to did. So you will be waiting for eternity all because you didnt read what I said.
But what does that mean? If I have to interpret it then it can mean anything from the best gems enchants and gear to someones subjective requirement. So what does it mean?
I dont think people do understand it. Its a heroic dungeon for crying out loud. Its not griefing. Go play with your guild and save everyone this kind of toxicity and rationale behind it.
I havent been contradicting myself at all. If I ever see you in the dungeon finder im either leaving or kicking. You have made it clear that you are a griefer through kicking people that dont meet your standards in a randomized group and if you want to have certain standards then you should make your own group within your own guild.
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Id say the vast majority of the players in Cata Classic are “Casual” Most of us clear the raid in 1 night on Heroic in 1.5-3 hours and then log off for the week and do it again maybe hit an alt raid but this has been the game since Cata launched one night clears of the raid/ raids on Heroic then log off until the next lockout. This is a neat change, I loved LFR back in Cata retail but this allows you to target loot and farm for it on Alts, and should keep the game a live a bit longer.
Just because you feel like something is not something does not change the fact that it is the definition of something.it 100%
Comparing the use of the Vote to Kick system to address consistent griefing behavior with racism is a false equivalence. The V2K system is a tool designed to maintain a positive and efficient group environment in the game, not to discriminate based on inherent traits such as race.
Context and Behavior: The V2K system is used based on players’ behavior, not their inherent attributes. If players from a specific server have consistently exhibited griefing behavior, it’s understandable why others might preemptively use V2K to avoid negative experiences. This is about addressing disruptive behavior, not discrimination.
This is also incorrect. +70 strength is not as strong as PvE 2-piece T13 LFR, which increases the damage done by Crusader Strike by 15%, or 2-piece T12, where Crusader Strike deals 15% more damage as fire over 4 seconds. Both of these provide a greater DPS increase than +70 strength.
Your initial assertion clearly implied that I was demanding perfect gear. When I challenged you to quote where I said players need to be in perfect gear, you backtracked by shifting the focus to the original post, rather than my comment. This backtracking indicates an acknowledgment that your initial implication was incorrect.
Here let me break it down for you since you lack basic logic to do so yourself.
When we say “be appropriately gemmed, enchanted, and geared,” it means equipping your character with suitable gems and enchants for your current level of gear, ensuring that your gear is optimized for your role in the game. This doesn’t necessarily mean having the best or perfect gear, but rather making sure your gear is reasonably optimized to contribute effectively to the group’s success.
For example:
- Gemming: Use gems that enhance your primary stats. They don’t have to be the most expensive or rare gems, but they should be relevant to your character’s needs.
- Enchanting: Apply enchants that boost your performance. Even basic enchants can make a significant difference.
- Gearing: Equip gear that is appropriate for your level and role. This means avoiding gear that is drastically underleveled or not suited for your character’s specialization.
The goal is to ensure that your character is adequately prepared to perform well in group content, contributing to the overall success of the team. This isn’t about meeting an elitist standard, but about showing respect for your fellow players by being reasonably prepared.
I clearly pointed out exactly where you made these contradictory and hypocritical remarks. However, you have made some more this time, so I will be kind and organize them all in a format that allows you to see them clearly.
Your statements have contained several contradictions and instances of hypocrisy:
- PvP Gear Exploitation:
- “Except you are saying that people DO do that to skirt around the requirements.”
- Later: “For melee players, the biggest boost is the weapon damage, the weapon speed, and the primary stat boost you get. So for Ret the pre-raid BIS is actually the Ruthless Gladiator’s Bonegrinder, which doesn’t actually take a rating to get, just conquest points earned during the season.”
- Contradiction: You acknowledge that PvP gear can be the best option for certain scenarios, yet criticize using PvP gear to meet item level requirements.
- Perfect Gear Assumption:
- “I never said they needed to have the best items. That’s what perfect gear means, which is what you were responding to.”
- “Please quote where I said players need to be in PERFECT GEAR. I will wait.”
- “I didn’t say you did, I said that the post that you were responding to did.”
- Hypocrisy: Initially, you implied I required perfect gear, and then backtracked by saying that it was the original post’s implication, not mine.
- Heroic Dungeon Preparedness:
- “I don’t think people do understand it. It’s a heroic dungeon for crying out loud. It’s not griefing. Go play with your guild and save everyone this kind of toxicity and rationale behind it.”
- Previous statements emphasize the importance of preparedness and the impact of not being gemmed/enchanted on group performance.
- Contradiction: You dismiss the importance of preparedness in heroic dungeons, despite earlier advocating for proper gearing to avoid being kicked.
By highlighting these contradictions and hypocrisies, it becomes clear that your arguments lack consistency and logical coherence.
This is precisely what I have been attempting to convey to others. This system effectively removes the RNG of not obtaining an item. Although you might not receive the item from the boss, you will still be able to acquire it from the vendor. Consequently, you would obtain the desired gear more quickly than running LFR for weeks. If people desired, they could complete Ti dungeons in a week or less by farming them and obtain 4pc LFR tier trinkets and weapons, which are the items most sought after by those participating in normal and heroic raid content.
doing 100 dungeons in a week is a lot harder to do than doing 1 raid a week. just cause it’s actually guaranteed loot doesn’t make it a “lazy easy way out”
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Oh he’s definitely right that the logic is comparable. This can easily be rewritten to be a common racist argument, but I won’t because I’d probably get a ban.
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Then everything is griefing if another player annoys another and all kicks are justified.
So if your transmog annoys me, kicked and its justified because its griefing.
This is not a form of racism. Racism involves prejudice or discrimination against individuals based on their race or ethnicity, which are inherent traits. The statement I made addresses the behavior of players from a specific server and the use of the Vote to Kick system to avoid negative experiences due to consistent griefing behavior. This is a response to disruptive actions, not an inherent trait. There for is not in any form racist.
Your argument
is an oversimplification and misrepresents the concept of griefing. Griefing involves deliberate actions that disrupt the game experience for others, such as trolling, AFKing, or intentionally causing wipes. It’s not simply about annoyance.
Additionally, kicking players from a server that has a history of griefing falls under this category as well. If players from a specific server have consistently exhibited griefing behavior, it becomes understandable why others might preemptively use the Vote to Kick system to avoid negative experiences. This is a proactive measure to maintain a positive and efficient group environment based on the history of disruptive actions, not an arbitrary or discriminatory action.
No one said it’s racist. It shares the same logic to come to your conclusion though. Change nouns in your sentence and it’s a much worse statement.
While it’s true that your argument isn’t racist, it’s important to recognize that using such logic to come to a conclusion on a much less severe topic may reveal your overall thought process regarding other topics. It’s reasonable to believe that someone who uses your logic would hold certain other beliefs.
I’m not saying this is you but…you probably would have been better off to avoid the topic. This isn’t the rabbit hole you think you want to enter. It would also benefit you to actually read what people type to you.
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I would like to point out it’s important to clarify that my argument is focused on addressing disruptive behavior within the game, not on inherent traits. While it’s understandable that some might draw comparisons(wrong as they may be), the intent behind using the Vote to Kick system is to maintain a positive and efficient group environment based on players’ actions, not their characteristics.
- Behavior vs. Inherent Traits: My argument targets disruptive behavior, not inherent traits. Changing the nouns in the sentence to make it a worse statement misses the point. The focus is on actions and behavior, not on attributes like race or ethnicity.
- Context Matters: Using the V2K system to address griefing behavior is about protecting the group’s gaming experience from known disruptive actions. This is a proactive measure to ensure a smooth and enjoyable environment for all players, based on past interactions.
- Constructive Intent: The logic applied here aims to maintain group performance and harmony. It’s not intended to imply broader beliefs about unrelated topics. Each kick decision is made with the intent to improve the group’s overall experience, not to discriminate.
- Engagement in Dialogue: My goal is to have an honest and constructive conversation. Dismissing the topic as a rabbit hole without engaging in the actual points being made doesn’t contribute to a meaningful discussion.
In summary, the use of the V2K system is about addressing specific disruptive behaviors to maintain a positive gaming environment. Comparing this to broader discriminatory logic is a misrepresentation of the intent. It is also form of topic derailment that is very common here.
Keep digging
BTW, by your logic, I suppose I should probably indiscriminately kick people from Faerlina because a lot of the people on your server roll need on things they don’t need, don’t know their class, are very rude, and the list goes on.
But if I did that, I’d miss out on doing dungeons with cool people from your server. You might not see the logic, or trying to avoid admitting it’s the same, but denying it won’t change the facts.
You addressed it yourself first, so you can’t cry foul when people call you on it. Quoting you is fair game, just as quoting me is. Heck, your entire initial rant was off topic, so the one who derailed it was you.
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No idea what they said (they are on mute), but I can only assume they are accusing you of derailing the convo (typical in his playbook) and it was a bunch of ChatGPT nonsense with bullet points and such.
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Yes, pretty much. Long story short is he did his usual bullet point lists detailing why people should be kicked, derailing the topic. Someone pointed out that his logic about server being a kickable offense is akin to racist arguments. Instead of being normal and being like, “what are you talking about it’s not that deep”, he went into an explanation of why it’s not comparable because he’s using player behavior and not traits, which is nonsense because server is a trait lol. I then proceeded to facetiously dig into him on it, and he fell back into his “derailing” and “mis-contextualized” talking points, even though he opened up himself to it in the first place.
Sound like what you’d expect?
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Welcome to retail CATA .
Learn to read what he was saying troll. PVP set bonus is a main stat STR , AGI and Int Resilience is a secondary stat .
Glad you buy tour gold !!!
Is that for the class I play a destro lock by then time I get done with DOTs every thing is dead so dps is low on every thing but a boss fight .
Some classes never do good dps on trash , trash is dead before they ramp up .
HAHAHA so true buy your gear ether from gold sellers or tokens .
I play on more then one server I here it all ppl on one server bad mouthing the other . Yet what I see is there mostly doing the same thing other servers . Ninja looting needing on gear they can not use so on .
Sorry to tell you but it is . The ability or power to see or make fine distinctions; discernment.
And is why vote to kick is bad for the game . It has gotten out of hand You have no idea how often I ignore it when it pops up .
This is so true
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