No casual player has ever said, “No fair! I can’t get current tier gear in dungeons!”
Original Wrath was the most casual friendly endgame. You had easy Heroic dungeons for casuals, and raids for hardcore. In Wrath Classic Blizz blew that up by adding Mythic dungeons. Now it’s just raids for hardcore players, and dungeons for hardcore players.
And the fact the devs are making changes to LFR (and breaking it in the process) tells me that’ll just be for hardcore players as well.
The Classic Team really doesn’t want casual players.
While casual players may not directly voice their concerns about gear access in the stated manner, these adjustments by Blizzard cater to their needs and enhance their gaming experience by providing more accessible and reliable avenues for gearing up.
Lets clarify that Blizzard never added ‘Mythic’ dungeons to WotLK Classic.he original WoTLK endgame indeed featured Heroic dungeons for casual players and raids for more hardcore players, and this structure has remained intact in the Classic version.
Heroic dungeons in Wrath Classic are designed to be accessible and provide an engaging experience for casual players, while the more challenging raid content caters to those seeking a higher level of difficulty (Heroic).This balance ensures that both casual and hardcore players have content tailored to their playstyles.
Moreover, Blizzard has introduced other features, such as Heroic+ dungeons, to add variety without creating the same level of challenge as Mythic dungeons in retail WoW. These adjustments aim to provide a balanced and enjoyable experience for all types of players without excluding casuals.
While I do agree that Blizzard did break LFR it is also fair to point out that the developers say they had no intentions of adding LFR to Cataclysm in the first place.
However, Blizzard did attempt to find common ground to address this issue by deciding to add a new system that offers significant benefits for casual players, providing more accessible and reliable ways to obtain gear. This shift helps maintain a balance between casual and hardcore players, ensuring a more inclusive gaming experience for everyone.
If you read what I provided in the post, you would see how this is actually wrong. Blizzard has introduced features such as Heroic+ dungeons, previous raid gear, and current tier LFR gear to vendors, specifically to cater to casual players. These changes are designed to provide more accessible and enjoyable content for players with varying playstyles and time commitments.
Yeah and getting kicked because your gear isn’t perfect, your enchants aren’t perfect, you’re not playing the ideal spec, or just because they don’t like your name is real casual friendly. More difficult = more toxic. Casuals just go play a chill game instead. Original Wrath Heroics didn’t have that problem because 5 trained monkeys could do them. Then in original Cata the devs decided, “Dungeons need to be hard!” And then millions quit. Blizz never learns.
If you mean the ICC dungeons that didn’t have the stupid affixes, yes. Most people just did Forge of Souls for their daily because it could be cleared in 10 minutes.
This is considered griefing and is a 100% legitimate reason to kick players.
When you say your gear isn’t perfect, do you mean you are in greens, using PvP gear, or have BoE’s in your bag to cheat the system and exploit your way into the dungeon? This is what really happens when players are kicked.
When you said your enchants are not perfect, do you mean that your gear isn’t even enchanted or is missing gems? Another valid reason to kick players.
You also forgot to mention the lack of DPS you would be doing because of the combination of all these reasons why you were kicked.
This was amazing. I really wish Blizzard would do that again this time around. You actually had to use cooldowns and crowd control on trash mobs; they were not steamrolled.
No, thats not griefing. Not having all the perfect stuff isnt griefing or else everyone would be griefing.
The only people I have seen kicked have been actually griefing through doing stuff like pulling for the tank and just creating an annoying run.
I also dont know why anyone would go straight into infernos. My ret is almost 370 and hasnt stepped foot in an inferno. Outside of getting the 2pc from helm and shoulders I have absolutely no reason to do them.
Kicking for no reason is griefing Heck the whole Vote kick system is griefing . At least when someone is camping your body you had a chance to get away when kicked you get a flat Half hour dead time and with Q is more like a hour .
How wrong you are . And by the way there is PVP gear that is biss are close to it for raiders all though this game . Most times it a wep .
this thing with lfr items being in dungeons will be good for raiders but normal people will just be kicked dont lie to ur self we gate keep alot of things but if there easy then ya good way to let normal non raider get gear
No, not having the best items is not a legit reason to kick players, not having the best enchants or gems also isnt a reason to kick players. This just opens up everyone to be kicked unless you are BiS and if you are BiS what are you doing in that content anyways?
I never said that kicking for no reason wasn’t griefing. I stated that kicking for valid reasons including but not limited to:
Having PVP gear
Being in greens and cheating/exploiting to get into the dungeon (having gear in your bags to enhance your item level, such as BoE cloth Player versus Player (PvP) gear).3.
Being low DPS
AFK
Being from Mankirk
Being from Pagle
Not knowing how to play your class
Not being a proper PvE spec
Not having any and or proper gems in your gear
Not having any or proper enchants on your gear
These are 100% valid reasons to kick players as they are 100% griefing the group.
The 30-minute debuff is intended to give players time to reflect on their actions and use the opportunity to correct their mistakes.
Practice on a dummy
Get enchants for your gear
Get gems for your gear
Fix your spec
Improve your gameplay
Stop being bad
Get better
It is beneficial that griefers are punished, as this is the only way they face consequences in the game.
Additionally, your comparison between world PvP and PvE content is not relevant.
It’s ssential to consider the overall balance and suitability of PvP gear for PvE encounters. Here’s why relying heavily on PvP gear in PvE content can be problematic:
Stat Allocation: PvP gear is designed with different stat priorities compared to PvE gear. PvP gear often prioritizes resilience or PvP power, which do not contribute to PvE performance. This leads to suboptimal stat allocation for PvE content, impacting overall effectiveness.
Set Bonuses: PvP gear set bonuses tailored to enhance PvP performance. These bonuses are not beneficial in a PvE setting, where the focus is on maximizing damage, healing, or survivability in PvP.
Consistency: PvE gear is more consistent in providing the necessary stats and bonuses required to excel in PvE content.
Accessibility: PvE gear can be obtained through various PvE activities, including dungeons, raids, and vendors. This ensures that players can gear up specifically for PvE content.
Players relying heavily on PvP gear is not the most efficient or effective way to optimize performance. PvE gear is specifically designed to meet the demands of PvE encounters, ensuring better stat allocation, set bonuses, and overall consistency.
I never said they needed to have the best items. I specified that they needed to be appropriately gemmed, enchanted, and geared. I never mentioned that the gear had to be the best.
I never said they needed to be the best; I just said they need proper gems and enchants. There is no reason not to have any gems or enchants on your gear when you are doing PvE content. Even if you’re doing PvP content set yourself up for success.
This is a horrible idea. You can now get in a dungeon the best trinket for every class, for only 200 stat difference from the hardest boss. That is horrible. I would rather have lfr at this point. I now have to farm dungeons to get gear to be optimal for heroic prog. This would have been fine after a month. I pray this doesn’t carry over into mop raids. What is the point of raiding if I can just cheese farm broken trinkets, even mega strong in lfr form, before I touch a boss in the raid?
Why would you spend 10’s of thousands of gold to by off pieces just to bypass the ilvl requirements when you can buy and equip the items?
not something to take action against.
The only thing that is really justified is people being afk or just flat out griefing.
Only like 1 of the things you listed is a valid reason which was being afk.
That is if they are only informed of their actions of why they were kicked, otherwise it does nothing.
So how does Blizzard punish someone that thinks that being from a certain server is a valid reason for a dungeon kick? Thats actual griefing.
But you have to be told of what you have done to understand and actually face the consequences. Just seeing the debuff doesnt do that and most people will just move on for 30 minutes.
Weapons.
So what about the set bonuses that give primary stats? These are beneficial in a pvp setting. PvP gear isnt going to kill a run and its not going to put people below 10k dps.
Thats what perfect gear means which is what you were responding to.
Which means what exactly?
But again, thats what perfect means which is what the post you were referencing was talking about. Perfect gear.
There is, if you are replacing gear fast then its 100% useless to waste the gold on them. If you are talking about a raid… sure. But dungeon content? You can leave that elitist mentality out of it. Its a dungeon. Unless people are actively griefing like pulling for the tank causing chaos, tanks not taunting after being brezzed just causing a wipe, typing about how bad the other players are when they are off running ahead during a skip so they get dazed and then they waste everyones time because they dont know how aggro works. The scenarios you are trying to paint, like people spending thousands upon thousands of gold just to bypass an ilvl requirement is just ridiculous. Why would I go spend 30k on some boots to artificially inflate my ilvl when I cant even use them? I have yet to see that.
What you are trying to say is people are out there spending 35k on an Elementium Deathplate on a mage just to boost their ilvl… why would they do that? There really isnt a rhyme or reason to it since most every slot that would boost your ilvl there is one that you could actually equip.
It sounds like all this stuff is pretty farfetched and is actually discouraged by the price of these items in the first place. Unless its just some inferno mode thing, which why is anyone doing inferno mode in the first place. You can get 370 without them and not going into pvp gear or heavily into it.
It is actually exploitative behavior. PvP gear has no place in PvE content. I kick players who wear PvP gear EVERYTIME!
No one is telling people to do that. Players can follow the progression and do Heroics > ZA/ZG > Infernos > HoT Heroics > Twilights. There are also JP and VP vendors for PvE gear.
Consistently doing low DPS in Heroic+ dungeons is 100% a form of griefing. When players perform significantly below the expected level for their role, it hinders the group’s overall performance and negatively impact the experience for others. This can lead to longer dungeon runs, increased difficulty in completing objectives, and frustration among group members.
While it may seem like kicking players based on their server is a form of griefing, it’s crucial to recognize the context. If players from a specific server have consistently exhibited griefing behavior, it becomes understandable why others might use the V2K system to avoid negative experiences. This is what is known as being PROACTIVE.
Past Behavior: If a group of players has repeatedly faced griefing from members of a particular server, it’s natural for them to preemptively take action to avoid similar experiences. This isn’t necessarily griefing; it’s a protective measure based on prior interactions.
Preventative Action: The V2K system exists to maintain a positive and efficient group environment. If players have had consistently negative experiences with members from a specific server, using V2K to prevent potential disruptions is as a legitimate use of the system.
Accountability: It’s important for players to be accountable for their actions. If players from a specific server have a reputation for griefing, it’s up to them to change that perception through positive behavior.
Context Matters: Each kick decision should be considered within the context of past interactions and the group’s desire to maintain a smooth, enjoyable experience. Labeling all V2K actions as griefing without considering the reasons behind them oversimplifies the issue.
Are there no PvE weapons? I am quite certain there are, and they are actually better suited for PvE than PvP.
It is absolutely true. Resilience is a worthless stat in PvE and does nothing.
Please quote where I said players need to be in PERFECT GEAR. I will wait.
It means exactly what it says: “be appropriately gemmed, enchanted, and geared.” If you possessed any sense of basic logic, you would understand what that means.
While it’s understandable that you may not want to spend gold on gems and enchants for rapidly replaced gear, it’s important to recognize that having properly enchanted and gemmed gear is a sign of preparedness and respect for your fellow players. Here’s why it still matters:
Performance and Contribution: Even in dungeons, properly gemmed and enchanted gear can significantly improve your performance, contributing to faster and smoother runs. It shows that you care about pulling your weight and not relying on others to carry you for your lack of preparation.
Respect for Group: Equipping gems and enchants, even if temporary, demonstrates respect for the time and effort of your group members. It ensures that everyone is putting in their best effort, leading to a more enjoyable experience for all.
Precedent for Raiding: Developing a habit of properly preparing your gear in dungeons sets a good precedent for future raiding. It helps build a mindset of always being prepared and ready for the content you’re tackling, whether it’s dungeons or raids.
Catch-Up Mechanics: The new catch-up mechanics, like Inferno and Twilight dungeons, reduce the need for players to resort to spending thousands of gold on gear. However, it’s essential to acknowledge that not properly gearing up (including gems and enchants) IS as a form of griefing, as it negatively impacts the group’s performance and experience.
Now let’s focus on how you have been contradicting yourself and all the hypocrisy in your posts. Calling others griefers: Supporting behavior that undermines group performance (such as not gemming or enchanting gear) while accusing others of griefing is problematic. Removing players for not contributing effectively or exhibiting disruptive behavior is not griefing; it’s a necessary action to maintain a positive and efficient group environment. Supporting PvP gear in PvE content.
addressing getting kicked from dungeons. If you find yourself frequently getting kicked from dungeons, the problem is not the system. It is very likely extremely poor performance.
In retail for years and in cata classic i have run a metric ton of dungeons in dungeon finder and literally never been kicked from one.
Just understand your class/spec and how to play it, don’t ignore mechanics and pull reasonable numbers and you will never get kicked.