You’re suppose to hate yourself. Now get back to forced self-flagellation.
1 Like
You disagreed with me, I responded, and all your argument has amounted to is “lol I don’t care”, resulting in a waste of not only my time, but I assume the people reading as well, both current and potential. I would say that your time is wasted, but if all you have is “lol I don’t care” then I’ll have to assume you intentionally want to waste my time, so congratulations I suppose.
If you want to dilute forum discourse with irrelevant hot takes admist people attempting to have genuine discussion, I’m afraid I’ll have to justify the report feature for you.
3 Likes
That wasn’t all I had to say in this conversation with you. I said it twice in reference to two different things. I said I didn’t really care about your quote but I should have explained the reason I didn’t care was because to me it came off as kind of condescending in a “You just don’t get how stories are suppose to work, you are obviously ignorant, here look at this” type of way and I didn’t get the relevancy of it to what I had said. Secondly I said ultimately at the end of the day I will still probably play the game regardless of what they do because I am a “mindless consumer”, I was cornily attempting to be self deprecating in this instance but you can chalk that up to “lol i don’t care” if you want.
If that is what you need to do, go ahead and do it. If I have broken the code of conduct the moderators are within their right to suspend or ban me from this forum and I will accept it, as I did for the entire month of march.
If you immediately attribute people using quotes/citations from others as a convoluted means to dismiss you out of ignorance, then don’t bother to reply as 9 times out 10 that’s not the intention. Citations are used to back up people’s arguments, that’s how arguments work.
1 Like
I feel a lot of your posts come with an air of condescension, for instance insinuating that I am not familiar with citation or “how arguments work”, so in that instance it felt that way to me.
2 Likes
It is ruined by the story/narrative emanating from her. As Feasel said in a Taliesin interview - BFA’s throughline is about Sylvanas and what she does with her newfound power.
Technically, they could have kept the story as is, but with Vol’jin as Warchief, including making Nathanos romantically-attached and ever loyal to Vol’jin - but they would not.
The story right now “fits” Sylvanas and is written primarily around her. It doesn’t fit Vol’jin/Saurfang/Thrall etc.
3 Likes
And the story/narrative is “emanating from her” because Blizzard decided to put her there in the first place when there was no damn reason to. It wasn’t natural character growth, it wasn’t a natural conflict, it’s a damn contrivance.
Replace Sylvanas with Garrosh and you literally highlight the issue with the Horde, its Blizzard themselves. They can’t write or a disinterested in writing a Honor-based Horde so they shove their preexisting dark characters to the guillotine with added bonus of throwing some staple “honorable” characters in as well.
9 Likes
I think they can write honorable Horde. I mean, they trotted out Vol’jin in MoP and his whole rebellion fit that bill. And this expansion, even though they are making them look like drooling morons they have banded together Thrall/Saurfang/Baine to parade honor up and down the field.
What they won’t do is portray the Horde being honorable as opposed to Alliance malevolence or villainy. The Horde can only stand up in the face of darkness when that darkness is wearing the same symbol as them. Alliance atrocity is excused, forgotten, forgiven or developed into growth - and rarely if ever (I can’t think of an example but let me know if I’ve missed one) is that forced by a Horde hand.
I don’t mean this pettily, I just think it’s a pattern that undermines the notion of what the Horde can reasonably accomplish as a narrative when their biggest antagonists refuse to antagonize and they are a fundamentally warlike people. Great news if you’re a blue team player, at least until Blizzard throws their hands up and has the Horde trash your things to force the issue.
1 Like
Because the audience is incapable?
It’s impossible to have a single battle go to one faction or the other without half the fanbase *****ing about it for a decade.
1 Like
I don’t think that is fair.
Yeah people may lose their minds over something like Theramore or Teldrassil.
But.
The issue has always been Ok. Horde hurt us. What are we going to do about it?
Nothing? Ok then!
yeah the fact that this is an mmorpg where there players invested on both sides make this a lot more difficult to write imo as opposed to it just being a novel or film.
when your character, your in game avatar, has to go along with what the side they are on is being written for then its just inevitable to be more touchy because the losses and everything else
when your character, your in game avatar, has to go along with what the side they are on is being written for then its just inevitable to be more touchy because the losses and everything else
I still think they should just go the EverQuest route and give players an in-game mechanic for hopping between faction allegiances.
I realize this would mess with a lot of the game systems Blizzard has in place for PvP, questing, and faction aesthetics, but I’m skeptical those are especially worth the constraints they impose. It forces everyone on a story freight train, it divides the playing population in half, and it creates innumerable problems with balance and the economy.
1 Like
You don’t like the writing? Guess what, neither do we. Don’t make us linked to genocides and atrocities and then both sides can be happy.
Being blunt, I have seen it done better. Hell Rift handled the two sides of its faction conflict better before they somewhat shelved it in later expansions. Blizzard took this challenge on when they decided to have a two faction narrative.
I don’t put much stock in the “MMOs are a difficult medium for storytelling” because I have seen some amazing storytelling in an MMO. The irony of past breaks I have had with WoW due to either long content droughts or substandard content is that I have had a chance to see what else is out there. WoW is big on flash but on actual narrative construction and depth, they aren’t even close being the leaders of the pack.
I think this is compounded by the fact that when it isn’t acting as either an antagonist for the Alliance or fighting against it’s own villainy, the horde tends to get shelved and mostly ignored except for a handful of cameos. We haven’t had a horde character or even horde related/themed involved in a central plot against a big bad since Thrall. Legion as a great example of this where Horde players will see far more of the Alliance leadership and former Alliance heroes than they will of the Horde. Hell the best they could shoehorn into the rogue order hall was Garona, who had no affiliation with the current horde, and Lillian Voss, who was supposed to be extremely anti necromancy and again, had not affiliation with the horde.
This means that literally the only time the Horde seems to do anything is when it is either imploding or doing something dubious.
7 Likes
is this nightmare already over?
i understand that there are greater threats but, if this was the case like we all knew
WHY THE HELL WE ARE HAVING A FACTION WAR IN THE FIRST PLACE?
neither side can’t win, we can’t even have our respective revenges due to the natural plot armor for both factions and characters.
i don’t think that i ever seen the story in such terrible state.
anyway, i hope that i never hear from faction war ever again.
kill the tumor.
Please, people still complain about freaking Taurajo. And hate the character that’s not as irrationally pissed off about it as they are.
Well the losses…aren’t real. People need to get over it.
Therein lies the problem. You can absolutely have your revenge. But too many people take the position of “If I haven’t removed the other faction from existence, I haven’t HAD my vengeance!”
Nobody in the fanbase is ever god**** reasonable about anything.
I agree, and lots of the people complaining about certain things in the story need to get over it then. “But I have to work with Saurfang! I have to kill Sunreavers?!” Yeah, it’s not real, so get over it? Right?
I don’t think it’s necessarily difficult for story telling but it is difficult for a certain type of story telling, particularly the story they’re trying to tell now. People were gonna be upset I think no matter how they tried to write this if it included certain key elements, like Teldrasil being burned by the Horde or Sylvanas being removed as Warchief. I’ve never played another MMO though as none of their worlds have quite captured my interest like WoW has.
Are you being sarcastic here? people have imagination and like to immerse in great stories, its what made books and other forms or art great, of course they grow attached to the game and are concerned about the story and the happenings of the characters of such story, the moment they dont they stop consuming the media, telling them to “get over it” is the same argument as “just stop playing if you dont like it” or “just dont do it”, it doesnt help the community, if this is your opinion you are needesly antagonizing the rest of the fans that do care because they dont share your view in the game, there are many people that only see this as a game but also people that like to immerse on their characters. fans love their favorite form of art and criticism, even one badly worded is born from concern, else they will just leave and the game die.
Edit:Quoted wrong person.
1 Like
My position is somewhere in the middle. It is natural for people to get upset at something they are immersed, hence why I originally stated that’s why I find it probably more difficult to write these kinds of stories in an MMORPG where peoples characters are actually involved in the game.
Oh you quoted wrong person. Carry on then.
I was so confused for a second. Anyway, the issue winds up being blizzard is really really bad at judging player reactions. They veiw everything in terms of mechanics, hell, one of their justifications for destroying undercity and teldrassil was “Well, since org and stormwind have all the things in them, no one used those cities, so clearly none would care if their gone”
I agree there was no right way out, but damn they couldve done better, putting the BoL first, making us rescue ALL the civilians like the heroes we are so at least my night elf doesnt feel like going all murderous all the time, i know everyone sounds wise after the fact but still the result was asinine, and of course, the lying “you guys dont know if she did it” well i was pretty sure she did it the moment you showed me the burning tree but i was hoping she really wasnt, why? it was the easiest way to write that scenario, it was the easiest way to write this expansion, hence me lashing out against it, instead sylvanas i blame lazy writing decisions:Drama bomb, idiot ball plot, moral dilemma…this tropes are not inherently bad, no trope is, its the implementation that makes them great or not.
I dont know if they had to write it like this because of someone else up in the hierarchy but still…
3 Likes