I don’t think Sylvanas should actually die. (Only because I want to be fair to people that want to see her mature as a character.)
I want to see her removed from the Horde and go off on her own adventure as a world character for the next expansion. (Which I think/hope will be Shadowlands.)
After becoming a better character, she can re-enter an Alliance of convenience with the Horde/Forsaken.
But removing her from the faction will absolutely help demonstrate the Horde won’t put up with her tactics or agenda anymore.
if the writers want it to fix the horde then that’s what will fix the horde because they have written her to be what is screwing over the horde very obviously and clearly
posts like this make me glad that the world stump went up in smoke. my faction will be fixed by the end of the expansion. your world stump might not ever be.
Posts like this cheer me up because when everything is over the Horde relevance disappears and you have to play second fiddle to Alliance heroes leading the fight against whatever world ending threat that shows up.
::He would look as Malfurion, Tyrande, Maiev, and the huntress i can’t remember are suddenly forgotten as the Human Alliance of Stormwind is front and center with Genn Greymane, with the night elves suffering the same problems as everyone else – ontop of also having 3/4ths of their population exterminated and their holy world stump destroyed.::
Poor reading comprehension. Don’t worry, I can help you out.
After this expansion, night elves will be forgotten and discarded. Only humans matter. So, the thing you were bragging about applies to you, too. Ontop of night elves being completely and wholly defeated in every single way ahead of time.
You can’t call it writing the Horde out of character if they’ve been this way for longer than they haven’t.
That said, again, this is no surprise at all. I’m waiting to see what the night elf stuff for 8.2 is, but I’m willing to bet it’s going to be one of several things.
A) Tyrande immediately backs off her vengeance path to work with the Horde and stop Azshara, and again the night elves will let things be water under the bridge, though the water under that bridge is already really high.
B) Tyrande will refuse to work for the Horde and continue on her justified path of vengeance, and be scolded for it by the other leaders. She’ll be framed as wrong and not letting things go, and will eventually fold.
C) Tyrande continues on her path of vengeance and the meta story will actively punish her for it, frame her as wrong, due to some Deus Ex Machina like Elune is corrupted, or her following the path will cause the End Time we saw.
D) Tyrande never interacts with the Horde forces at all, and the focus is purely on nelves versus Azshara. The only reference will be Elune being weakened from the Night Warrior ritual, making it all for nothing/a bad move. The Horde/Alliance conflict is settled completely via the humans and the Horde races.
This is the narrative they want to spin, and there’s only one group that really throws a wrench into it. Horde does get the short end of the stick, I agree there. But night elves aren’t even getting a stick, they’re getting a splinter.
Sure, nothing what you said addresses my point. The Horde isn’t ruined because Sylvanas. If people genuinely believe this, then they need to take basic literature courses again…
"If the writers want…" That’s not how storytelling works. To quote a favorite narrative analyst of mine, " “In any story, it doesn’t matter what genre, the audience is expecting the storyteller to abide by certain implicit rules. These are things like internal consistency, chronology, and cause and effect. All these things add up to narrative coherence; you can’t play with them too much. You have to exercise restraint and have some respect for the implicit agreements that exist between you and your audience.”
Put simply, in a storytelling relationship between author/narrator and audience, there exists implict rules that must be abided to maintain suspension of disbelief. You defending Blizzard writing to “they can do whatever the hell they want” isn’t good for the narrative in any objective sense.
Agreed, but the issue is that it’s being framed that way, and will continue to be as such. Otherwise they would need to call an entire player faction out for being actually evil/a detriment to the world as a whole, and that’s not feasible.
wasn’t defending blizzard really i was saying if that’s how they want the story to work then that’s how it works. i don’t care about your quote. there has been a level of coherency and the story repeatedly points to sylvanas being the problem in the horde with multiple characters saying as much and reacting to her decisions and she has been repeatedly shown since vanilla to be deceptive and not telling the truth. the narrative pretty clearly seems to prepare people for her removal imo.
so you’re point about “removing sylvanas won’t fix the horde” is wrong. maybe it doesn’t fix the horde for you
I love how your form of arguing is immediately throwing out my citations without bothering to read why I used them in the first place, how do you write essays I wonder?
Fine, I’ll spell it out for you. Sylvanas won’t fix the Horde because the Horde’s problems is not a result of Sylvanas. Sylvanas is a character, the vehicle, for shoving this narrative. Who decides the narrative? Blizzard.
Take a step back and think, why do we even have this narrative in the first place? Why did Sylvanas become Warchief? Well because Vol’jin died. Well why did Vol’jin die? Because…
Blizzard didn’t care to write a Horde led by Vol’jin, so they immediately axed him and shoved Sylvanas forth to repeat the Garrosh/MoP plotline. Why are we repeating this plotline again? No one asked for Sylvie to be Warchief. You kill Sylvanas you’re setting up Blizzard to have their figurative hands up their @sses again wondering how to write the Horde without their “dark” characters, alas, we then repeat the same plotline again or, an even worse scenario, we’ve a Horde with no characters to attach ourselves to.
Because they decided this is the story they wanted to tell.
This isn’t an inevitability like you make it sound. Like they could write the Horde in a better more empathetic way afterwards if they choose to. Why does the Horde being written correctly in the future all hinge on Sylvanas remaining Warchief to you? I don’t get it. Quite frankly it just sounds like you are upset at the way she has been written and doubly upset by the fact it increases the likelihood of her being axed off, which is understandable.
I’m not even referencing my attachment to Sylvanas, I’m spelling out for you Blizzard’s incompetence with writing the Horde. My attachment to the character of Sylvanas is irrelevant, I argued the same manner in defending Garrosh way back then; quite simply, I fundamentally disagree with the narrative trend Blizzard puts out in killing off our characters, especially since their deaths/absence don’t lead anywhere.
Ever since WC3, where Metzen went full-ham and restructured the Horde, the Horde itself has always existed with a dark character archetype. In WC3 it was Grom Hellscream, arguably the only characters whose death was done justice. In WoW up to MoP it was Garrosh Hellscream. Now here we are at BfA, we have Sylvanas. By narrative pattern over the course of a decade+ of this MMORPG’s existence, Blizzard has never shown the competency or desire to write a honor-based Horde. Name one expansion where an Honor-based Horde carried the narrative in faction war setting.
Why can’t we simply, y’know, have a faction war where we actually buy into the #factionpride and just simply fight the other faction while feeling good about it?
That’s fine and I may even dare to say I agree but that doesn’t change how we are currently in the middle of this narrative or whatever again whether we like it or not, and I’d rather them just carry it out to completion because trying to rescue it or abandon it right smack in the middle would be jarring I think. Afterwards I hope they go in another direction. I’ll still play the game though probably cause I am a mindless consumer.
If you won’t bother with attempting to work towards a solution amongst the playerbase, then don’t reply to me. People voicing their complaints, as consumers, have a right to do so, doubly so if they’ve the argument to back it up. You going all over to counter their opinions and in the end put your hands up to go “lol I don’t care” does a disservice to the discourse of this community.
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