In the burning? yes. The are, no one, not even sylvanas, knew the tree was gonna go up in flames when they set off. The War of the Thorns is different, but most of the hordes leaders were told very different things about it, the idea it would be a short war with minimum bloodshed, solely used to barter for a full blown peace treaty, it was stupid, but nor evil on there end. Saurfang i feel you can put a bit more blame on as he was the guy responsible for the atrocities the soldiers commited via the notion that a Commander is responsible for the crimes of his men, and that he made the battleplan, but guys like Baine, Rokhan, Lorthemar, Thalryssa, Mayla, they are innocent.
You are going to write this one again.
Because she literally says burn it.
After being explicitly told it is defensless and only civilians are there now.
I totally and completely disagree.
Guilt by association and they have to bear consequences for continuing to follow Sylvanas.
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When i say set off i mean set off to war, sorry for not being clear, everyone thought that they were just gonna occupy teldrassil. It only happened do to saurfang messing up one of the main objectives, and sylvanas having the mental maturity of a child.
And as i said, if you want to blame them for following sylvanas you can, but dont accuse them of genocide since they took no part of it. The burning is solely on sylvanasâ hands
They are helping a genocidal killer.
What consequence are they going to face?
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You cannot be serious. Sylvanas didnât drag those catapults all the way to Darkshore or kill her way there single handedly. She didnât light the fuses or guide the projectiles to their destinations with her shaman powers. To say the Horde as a whole has no complicity in what happened to Teldrassil is unbelievably ridiculous. She couldnât do anything without an army to support her.
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If the Final BfA Patch revealed that all the Horde Soldiers who brought Catapults to Darkshore and fired them alongside the rest of the Soldiers present in the War of Thorns sans Saurfang and the Players were present in Sylvanasâs army and were to be wiped out by the Alliance and the rest of the Horde how would you react?
You do these hypotheticals a lot and Iâm not sure what youâre getting at this time either. Should I care that the soldiers involved in it die? I donât see why.
Remind me what the current raid is called?
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Crucible of Storms?
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The Horde for being written obscenely out of character in order to make the Alliance look good, righteous, and correct.
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The problem is that the Horde has been through this before and the same guys that passively went along with it cite the same reasons as last time. âWell, I donât want him/her turning their wrath on me and my people.â While Baine has finally reached some sort of limit, itâs pretty impressive how long itâs taking the others.
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blizzard is like when you have an ipod with 100 songs downloaded and you put it on shuffle but it bugs out and just plays one song over and over to infinity.
Even if you liked that one song you wonât for long.
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Thalyssra was the one that makes a proposition based on the Alliance and Horde working together, yes:
- Lor'themar: Proudmoore and Shaw risked their lives to rescue Baine? Unexpected.
Thalyssra: That animosity only benefits Azshara. Her power is considerable. Divided, we are no match for her--or the master she serves.
Lor'themar: Cooperation between our sides has been the exception, not the rule. More often, we are at each other's throats.
Thalyssra: Is it? Not long ago, Alliance and Horde fought together to liberate Suramar from the Legion.
Lor'themar: Sylvanas has the loyalty of the people. So long as she is warchief, this war will rage within their hearts. We cannot stop it.
Thalyssra: Perhaps we do not need to. It might be enough to direct our attacks against Azshara rather than the Alliance.
Lor'themar: That plan would infuriate Blightcaller... which makes me like it all the more. Hmm... "It stops when you turn from one another and walk away..."
Thalyssra: Yes. We also have a history of setting differences aside to fight greater foes.
Lor'themar: A lesson once taught to Jaina Proudmoore and me. Your counsel is wise, Thalyssra. Our focus must be on ending Azshara's reign.
Thalyssra: A truce then? We fight Azshara here, not one another.
Lor'themar: But if the Alliance undermines our efforts, the flames of war will rise again.
Alliance response to the situation after going to rescue Baine:
- Genn: Good to have you back, Jaina. Why did King Anduin summon you?
Jaina: Sylvanas ordered the execution of Baine Bloodhoof. Anduin sent us into Orgrimmar to rescue him.
Genn: You risked your lives to save a leader of the Horde?!
Jaina: After what he did for Derek, I felt I owed him a debt. We received some unexpected help from Saurfang... and Thrall.
Shandris: You were fortunate that you were not betrayed. Presenting your heads might have regained their warchief's favor.
Jaina: We had a common enemy. Sylvanas wanted us at each other's throats. Perhaps that's what Azshara wants, too.
Genn: Hold on... Are you suggesting we lay down our arms and fight beside them? After all they've done?!
Jaina: No. Merely that we direct our efforts against Azshara instead of the Horde. That could buy time for Saurfang's rebellion to take root.
Jaina: There must be vengeance for Teldrassil. But if Azshara is not stopped, she will unleash her master upon the world.
Genn: Very well. We will focus on defeating the naga queen. But if the Horde turns against us, they will answer for it.
After defeating Azshara:
- Lor'themar: Our victory rings hollow. Azshara's master will rise. Nothing can stop that now.
Jaina: For all her lies, Priscilla Ashvane spoke one truth. The war between the Alliance and Horde has kept us distracted. Divided, we have no hope against N'Zoth.
Lor'themar: We may have found common cause here in Nazjatar, but the battle still rages beyond these waters. So long as Sylvanas holds Orgrimmar, there can be no lasting peace.
Jaina: The war needs to end, Lor'themar. You know this to be true.
Lor'themar: I had hoped that reason would prevail. But the time has come to finish this.
Lor'themar: I will tell my people what transpired here. Of how Azshara fell because we stood together. Of the threat rising from the depths, and all that is at stake if we should fail.
Lor'themar: Then I will take my place beside Saurfang and Thrall, and pray that the sin'dorei stand with me.
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Unless they finally remove the factions, this is all meaningless and a waste of time. Within two expansions weâll be back at each others throat.
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Sure, but in between the Horde will probably be questing alongside Malfurion and Tyrande again, ala Mount Hyjal and Valâsharah, for reasons.
The Alliance is not forced to worked with Sylvanas.
Saurfang, Baine, Thrall, and Lorâthemar are not and were not in favor of conducting genocide against the Alliance.
I am so tired of Horde players pretending that Sylvanas is the sole cause of everything.
There are dozens of instances where Horde NPCs are committing horrible acts with Sylvanas nowhere to be seen.
Orcs, Undead, Trolls, Goblins and even Blood Elves.
No Taurens tho.
Why are you trying to convince me the Horde is not responsible when they clearly are?
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The story emanates from her. The Horde is extra evil because Sylvanas is extra evil. Sylvanas is at the helm. She is the center of this. Not only literally as the Hordeâs highest authority, but narratively as the individual that destroys the Hordeâs identity and provokes others to reclaim it.
We wouldnât have a story like this if Volâjin/Thrall/Saurfang was Warchief.
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The Horde has no identity beyond being evil but trying to backtrack and whitewash what they do.
Their lore only revolves around mass murder and killing of Alliance races.
When we finally move away from the faction war they become invisilbe participants to some world ending threat that the Alliance has to take care of.
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Tell me again, why dont we have Warcheif Volâjin? Stop being dumb, killing Sylvie wont fix the Horde.
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