I hope we have an option to go “Oh hey Thalyssra, remember when we helped your fledgling rebellion and saved your entire society from arcwine dependence and a slow death? Sure was nice when you repaid that with a knife in the back!”
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And this is why you should never be given a job involving law.
Im fine with alliance players disliking thalryssa for going horde, i dont agree it was a betrayal at all and think it made sense, but i know how it feels because Argus had an entire scene of the person you helped say how much they hate the horde, but you seem to be trying to find new delusional ways to justify your hate.
I get you are a high elf fan, but there is a serious discrepancy between “maintaining our alliance that is good for my people” and “Literally Hitler”.
Which knife?
The joining the Horde knife?
The support for the Horde after the Horde wiped Teldrassil from the map knife?
The help rescuing the princess of Zandalri to get the Zandalri fleet knife?
The support from her in KT knife?
Which exact knife are we talking about?
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I’m just waiting for Blizzard to force Alliance characters to kill Night Elves who want vengeance for Teldrassil.
It’s what I’m expecting. It’s what they’re doing to the Horde right now.
Working together has always been stupid and utterly pointless seeing how most enemies fold like a wet cloth.
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I’ve never had a problem with both sides working together, although after Teldrassil, it’s very difficult to make sense of such an outcome. Splitting both sides at the beginning of WoW seemed unnecessary for creating a good and engrossing story. What bothers me is Horde and Alliance working together to kill Horde. It keeps happening, and it just means that the Horde needs to be dismantled permanently. That’s the part that I hate about BfA, that the only way it can make sense is if the Horde is subjugated or exterminated or if the Horde is to be saved, then the opposite has to be true in order to give the Horde a chance to work on why it keeps failing so impressively.
That, or the Black Empire returns and crushes both factions
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All of 'em I guess. She should be a rogue with those knife skills.
I really am not a High Elf fan but I know this is some sort of slur for some horde posters so have at it.
All horde leaders followed Sylvanas or at least knew what happened after Teldrassil.
They knew what Sylvanas did and still followed her.
If you witness someone murder someone else and you try and help them then you are complicit and guilty.
All Horde leaders share this burden.
Saurfang and Thrall are not guilty of Sylvanas but they have their own issues.
So yeah. Excuse me as I take issue with the “Horde is not all bad” narrative for the third time.
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I briefly went through the text, did she actually say that she wanted to NOW work with the Alliance?
If so what was the Alliance response?
The Burning of Teldrassil is an extremely touchy subject.
If you look at it rationally, without bias, it is an utter tragedy spurred on by what seems to be the most exaggerated over-reaction in Warcraft History. The Alliance suffers an incredible defeat and the Night Elven race teeters on the brink of genocide. The worse loss of innocent life in history is recorded, and the darkest chapter of the Horde to date has begun.
Alliance leaders have every reason to be hacked off and pursue the complete destruction of the Horde. Sylvanas just made this a war of extinction.
Horde leaders, by contrast, whether they took part or not, find themselves in that war of extinction, by virtue of being Horde. Leaving the Horde is no guarantee of safety from the Alliance, and is a guarantee of aggression from the rest of the Horde.
If you’re a Horde leader after the burning of Teldrassil, you realize your hand has been forced for you by Sylvanas. There’s no backing out. The only option you have that has a chance of survival, is to fight this war, and hope that once it’s over you can do something to prevent this chapter of the Horde’s history from growing even darker.
I feel for the likes of Thalyssra and Mayla. There were sold an honorable Horde that acts as protectors of the world, and their first major experience as members of the Horde isn’t protecting Azeroth, it’s Exploiting it’s slow-death to commit genocide.
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Genocide is the act of doing a mass murder.
A better word would be extinction.
You don’t need to complete the mass killing for it to be referred to as a genocide.
Does this make them innocent? No.
yeah people really do seem to think decision making is really easy for leaders lol
there is so many things that one has to factor in and it takes time and processes unfolding.
like i agree the leaders should have acted much more swiftly after teldrassil if they did not agree with it/were appalled by it and i also agree the horde shoulda never went along with these war plans to begin with but it is what it is and they were put in a complicated position.
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Heres something a lot of people, and i mean a lot of people, don’t understand
What is morally correct and what is actually good for your peoples well being are often, very, very different things.
Sparta was a terrible, terrible place, but the reason they where always at war was born of necessity, they lived in the part of greece that was the worst for farming. They proceeded to conquer their neighbors then collect parts of their harvest to feed themselves. The Crusade were an awful time period, but the entire reason they happened was because the pope saw that Europe was gonna tear itself apart in a massive war.
In wow this is why i veiw Lorthemar as a better leader then Baine. Baine is willing to sacrifice his people for his morals, Lorthemar is willing to sacrifice his morals for his people, even if he dislikes it afterwards.
In terms of staying with the horde after the burning, look at it like this, which horde race would be better off without the rest of the hordes support. Most of them need the hordes support to keep themselves safe, while the nightborn need to use the horde to reach out to the outside world, as by that point in time im not sure if the alliance would accept them.
Their is a Moral Choice, and a Leaders Choice, and often time, they lead away from one another.
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Ok fine.
I agree with that.
But for the sake of the story does this mean these characters are free of any consequence?
Ok. Lorthemar and whoever else have complex reasons to stay in the Horde rather than DUUUUR FO DA HERD!
I can appreciate that.
But that doesn’t absolve them of anything. They have to face consequences.
They have to pay otherwise why take decisions at all? Nothing will ever happen and everything will be alright no matter what you do.
Its like watching the first season of Game of Thrones.
Joffrey kills Ned Stark.
Robb captures Jaime Lannister.
Everyone’s reaction and their hype of the CONSEQUENCES of these events and actions is what made the series so great to watch.
What do you think the reaction would be if Robb just forgives everyone and goes back North?
The Show will be cancelled in 2 seasons.
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Absolve them of anything, is a funny term, as many of the horde playerbases issues are the alliance being absolved of their crimes against the horde. You likely wont find any in BfA mind you, but the alliance has done awful things to the horde and faced little comeuppence or blame for them. It’s not good storytelling, i’ll tell you that, but it’s how wow works.
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Oh right the Taurajo meme.
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The problem with being Alliance, I’ve found, is that in order to win, you must be morally perfect, and militarily victorious.
If you win militarily, but some morals or some ethically questionable methods were used, then you’ve lost and it will be held against you.
If you win morally, but lose militarily, then you have won nothing, and just appear foolish in your values. You’re pigeonholed into a singular method of winning. You cannot be an aggressor, because that would paint you as war-mongering. You must be reactionary, and god help you if you use the enemies’ own tactics against them.
The Horde seems to have no problem throwing morals out the window to achieve victory, and is often rewarded with it. Southshore, invasion of Arathi, invasion of Darkshore, burning of Teldrassil, Theramore, etc. It doesn’t matter what you do, so long as you win, you’ll be forgiven because the Alliance can’t retaliate without losing either militarily or morally.
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Even ignoring taurajo, the alliance has done actions that would be considered evil against the horde, sometimes they had their own justification (The Purge for example, or the Whole No Witnesses scene) but othertimes not so much. WoW works by saying these people are good, these people are bad, and the evil things the good guys do get’s well ignores.
I know these feel like minor complaints, but thats because wow has made them minor. They attempted murder of an entire goblin cartel is brushed aside, simply because blizzard doesnt care. And the crimes of your upset about, the fact the horde leaders are to concerned about other things to act against sylvanas immediately, is a lot more minor compared to other ignored crimes, committed by both alliance and horde.
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Are you seriously putting Teldrassil to the same level as No Witnesses?
BTW everyone involved in Camp Taurajo attacked died and then Theramore was nuked.
Pretty sure the Horde player got their payback a thousand fold.
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No, i’m putting not immediatly leaving the horde below no witnesses, Sylvanas is going to receive her comeuppance at the end of the expansion, that i guarantee, but the rest of the horde won’t because no one on the horde wanted it to happen, it was a crime that rest solely on sylvanas’ hands.
If a man sells someone a gun, under the assumption he will use it for self defense, but that man uses it to kill 20 people, the man who sold the gun, might be questioned about it, he might be fined for it, but more likely nothing will happen to that man after the investigation is over, he thought the guy was gonna do something else.
He was a reason the crime happened, but had nothing to do with the crime happened if you catch my drift. No one hordeside wanted what sylvanas was doing to the night elves to happen, no one thought it would. It’s also why i see blaming thrall for theramore as foolish, yes, thrall made garrosh warchief, and that was an error on his part that he has felt deep remorse about, but, he had nothing to do with the crime itself.
Ah yes. Only Sylvanas.
Of course.
Literally everyone else are innocent like pure snowflakes.
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