Lets talk about Villians

[Adelaide-proudmoore (Adelaide)]

@Rashidi-anvilmar

They use avatars… literally, there isn’t any lore, not even in chronicle, suggesting the origin of Titans is in bodies at all. The bodies they move around in are always avatars. Argus was a World Soul and created himself an avatar when we fought him in Antorus; same as the other Titans on the pantheon making their own avatars. Distance was irrelevant, Argus didn’t have any original body anywhere. Sargeras doesn’t have any original body anywhere. Aman’thul and Eonar never had any original bodies anywhere. They are all World Souls. World Souls have to travel also.

Right, just make up whatever you want. Cool.

Pointless argument.

[Cursewords-tichondrius (Cursewords)]

@Rashidi-anvilmar

I think you may be confused about something… but we didn’t really “kill” Argus, we simply defeated his avatar and sent him back to his world soul form; which had implied adventures off in shadowland off screen thereafter.

I think you may be confused. About a great many things.

We defeat Argus. That world soul was pumped with Nathrezim Juice, and blew up The Arbiter, because they were not prepared for that avenue of attack.

There is no “sent it back in its world soul form” - it was not sent “back”

Its soul was perverted and misdirected.

[Mawthorne-lightninghoof]

@Adelaide-proudmoore

Considering Azeroth seems to not be a Titan and the Titan Pantheon is dead, The Last Titan is Sargeras

I think that it’s probably both.

Sargeras is the last titan. Azeroth will become a titan and help us defeat sargeras. These titles are always double entendre.

[Cursewords-tichondrius (Cursewords)]

@Mawthorne-lightninghoof

Sargeras is the last titan. Azeroth will become a titan and help us defeat sargeras. These titles are always double entendre.

I mean, if we are spit balling here…

It could be that Azeroth is a First One, and this new singing Beledar Hussy might be the Last Titan.

The Dragons say Azeroth is not Titanic, as it were.

So, maybe Azeroth is the First One powerful enough to guard the last Titan within Beledar - and then they start their own Super Group

[Mawthorne-lightninghoof]

Ok, but is the other half of the word play still Sargeras oe something else?

The war within is like… Trauma and deep inside the underdark. The battle for Azeroth is the faction conflict and the war against Nzoth. That kind of thing.

[Alynsa-wyrmrest-accord]

Ok. I’m’a go ultra-crazy insane conspiracy theory nutso here. You want wordplay? I’m’a give you wordplay!!

What if you’re thinking of “Last Titan” wrong, and instead of last being final, it’s last as in previous? As in, opposite of “Next Titan”.

What if this also plays into that seemingly-abandoned bit from MoP about “rebuilding the final titan” and we combine the previous titan with the last/final titan? One that would need some rebuilding?

What if it’s Argus? The last titan we faced, a titan that is broken and could be rebuilt?

It’s crazy, right? But where did we go the last time we were in Northrend? Shadowlands, where Argus ended up smashing into (and then got double-stabbed to death). Where do we go in TLT? Northrend again.

But I know, I know!! Argus got killed, then killed again. There is no way, right?

Well, when we beat up Second Argus in Zereth Mortis, the only thing he leaves behind is the Arbiter husk he was getting shoved into. The Argus echo just poofs away, presumably entirely spent. But this was never the whole of Argus. It was just an echo. We don’t know what happened to the bulk of Argus after he smashed through the Arbiter.

Now I’m not talking about a full resurrection of Argus. I’m thinking more rebuilding him the way we ended up rebuilding the Arbiter into PelArbiter. We take the bits of Argus we end up finding scattered across the Shadowlands, or maybe even that fell out into Azeroth after Sylvanas shattered the Helm, we go back to Argus (the planet) with that and the Argus Titan Husk, and we shove a soul into it to “rebuild the final titan” Argus as something new. Or maybe Xal’atath does this and makes herself into some hodge podge Old God-ish Titan thing also tied to Death via Argus bits.

…

This is a dumb theory and totally not something that is actually going to happen. But y’all want something crazy? I give you crazy.

[Kromkosh-thrall (Kromkosh)]

“Spirits” is all the Titans are. Their physical forms are just the planets that their world souls spawned in.

There’s not much to suggest they need any kind of physical form to exist.

[Adelaide-proudmoore (Adelaide)]

You guys are just going to keep disagreeing with the actual lore aren’t you?

Sargeras killed the Titans. Norgannon cast a spell that sent their souls off into hiding. Sargeras eventually tracked the souls down and brought them to Antroras for torture except for Eonar’s soul that he didn’t find on Elunaria.

[Alynsa-wyrmrest-accord]

@Kromkosh-thrall

There’s not much to suggest they need any kind of physical form to exist.

I mean, the whole “Sargeras needs big portals to reach Azeroth because he’s so big, but he can shove a small avatar through a smaller portal” certainly does imply they have physical dimentions.

[Karestae-moon-guard]

Also ignoring that Sargeras CLEAVED Aggramar in two in a fit of anger and than had a major battle with the titans and killing them eventually

Kinda hard to do that to non corporal entities

[Kaileath-wyrmrest-accord]

@Adelaide-proudmoore

except for Eonar’s soul that he didn’t find on Elunaria.

Seems like Elune (and perhaps the forces of life in general) kept Eonar’s spirit hidden for so long despite how hard the Legion looked.

After all, as historians say, it seems They Were Roommates.

[Kromkosh-thrall (Kromkosh)]

No one said they’re non-corporeal. Or I guess more specifically that don’t have corporeal forms. I said they don’t need physical forms to continue existing or “living”, because they clearly and obviously don’t, because they’re still alive and weren’t actually killed, only greatly diminished.

[Adelaide-proudmoore (Adelaide)]

The same is true of literally everyone though.

Like Maladaar in the draenei heritage quest is still active doing stuff and continuing his role as Exarch of the Auchenai. He’s also very much dead.

[Kromkosh-thrall (Kromkosh)]

I don’t know about Maladaar, I don’t have any Draenei characters.

But I know that if I have a character who can “die”, but they can literally just be put into a new body, hit a switch, and they come back to life with their memories still intact a la Aggramar, I wouldn’t call them dead.

[Adelaide-proudmoore (Adelaide)]

That’s an avatar that Aggramar’s soul was put in. He didn’t regrow a body or anything.

Which isn’t that different from the draenei binding souls to Vigilants. Or just necromancy in general really.

[Aussielight-dathremar (Aussielight)]

@Adelaide-proudmoore

@Bigfel-dalaran

? The titans aren’t dead. They just chilling while chaining up Sargeras right now.

They are dead. Sargeras killed them. What we saw in Legion were their spirits. We rescued their spirits during the Antoras raid.

Keep in mind, the titans have been restoring their strength in their seat of power – The Seat of the Pantheon.

Also, the titans aren’t like other beings — They can essentially reincarnate with a new avatar, but they just lose power in the process & have to regain it overtime.

• Hence to why we saw Aggramar who was killed by Sargeras, then had his soul captured – Reconstituted and then we slew Aggramar, and he returned yet again.

I’d also wager that’s why it’s hinted we’ll be seeing the Titans as enemies in the final expansion of the World-Soul-Saga: The Last Titan

[Kromkosh-thrall (Kromkosh)]

It doesn’t matter what the body is. Aggramar is sentient, mobile, and has his memories. He is “alive” in every sense of the word save I guess medically, if such a concept can even apply to beings like the Titans.

He didn’t require resurrection to return, he, again, was just placed into a new body and was otherwise fine save for Sargeras corrupting his mind.

Death in general doesn’t seem to apply to beings like Titans except in outstanding circumstances like Argus.

[Adelaide-proudmoore (Adelaide)]

This applies to literally everything. You can shove souls back into their own bodies, into constructs, into other people’s bodies, etc.

[Kromkosh-thrall (Kromkosh)]

Then the Titans being “killed” is a semantic argument since they are quite literally alive in-game.

[Adelaide-proudmoore (Adelaide)]

The actual established story of the game is a semantic argument?