It is actually mentioned in Odyn’s edicts to the other Keepers and high level watchers. They are to hide all evidence of the Progenitors and Zereth Ordus because it would “confuse mortals”, Ol’ Firebeard felt it was best that the Titans be given credit for everything.
Except for the bad stuff. That was all the Old Gods and Demons, and definitely never ever Titanforged.
Odyn is a liar, so I personally don’t believe anything he has to say. He’s extremely biased after all.
(Wouldn’t a Zerith Ordus defeat the entire purpose of Zerith Mortis anyway? What would it do that Zerith Mortis isn’t already doing?)
Apperantly every cosmic force has a Zereth site that manages and controls its purpose in some big cosmic plan.
Its the six control rooms that run the multiverse. I guess?
Or that was where Danuser seemed to be taking it. Who knows where it will go with the story ‘under new management’ as it were.
Maybe. SL lore is honestly a hot mess that doesn’t fit with the rest of WoWs lore/cosmology.
Seems even in TWW, with the Arathi cosmology chart, Metzen and Co are trying to reign some of the mess in that Dansuer created
Alynsa, I already mentioned the Khadgar mistake above. At the beginning of Legion he thought they were dead, which gave the writers time to save their surprise that there was going to be an Antorus raid at the end of that same expansion where we find out the Titans were never dead. The thing that you were shooting arrows at during the Aggramar fight was an “avatar” that he made so he could walk around in it. Same as the avatar that the Titans made for themselves on the pantheon a few moments after the conclusion of the Aggramar fight… where we see them show up as stellar world souls first, and “then” manifest metal and stone bodies to sit on chairs within.
Those metal and stone bodies are avatars. Every last one of them. The origin of the Titans was never from bodies, they all started as World Souls.
For the thousandth time, Chronicle is point of view of a titan construct that doesn’t have omniscient narrator status. As I already mentioned, Khadgar made a mistake… and we had to wait until the end of that expansion to see that Khadgar was wrong. Even so, even the unreliable point of view statements of the Chronicle do not ever say that Titans came from bodies. It makes very clear they believe that all Titans started out as World Souls. Not just the pantheon, even Argus and K’aresh and the nameless one that Sargeras cleaved in half… all were Titans, all were World Souls.
You’re thinking of something entirely different. The Titans have avatars, and it absolutely is simple. We see them literally make new avatars for themselves in the Antorus raid when they teleport into the seat of the pantheon.
The lore we have is that Sargeras killed them and Norgannon used a spell to send their souls into hiding and then Sargeras managed to track down the souls except for Eonar.
I don’t know where you’re getting your information from, but it directly contradicts the lore we have.
I want to first say that I agree that they seem to want to present Worldsouls as permeable, and agree that Azeroth is not just a Titan or Prime Titan.
I will also say, however, that the only example of this being stress tested was Argus and he still popped out as a Titan. Every depiction of Azeroth thus far has been a constellation in a nebulaic (is that a word?) energy cloud, which is exactly what Argus was.
I will also also say the forum plague that blocks character access is annoying.
There isn’t any lore that the origin of Titans was from bodies. All of the lore says Titans were World Souls first, and avatar bodies came later.
The entire purpose of every Legion invasion of Azeroth was to create a portal large enough to accommodate Sargeras’ actual body crossing over instead of just another avatar. Creating avatars was something he did in tandem with the creation of the Scepter of Sargeras to facilitate him extending a remote presence to worlds without having to physically go there. The whole point of waging war against the Old Gods via the titan-forged was that the titans themselves were too physically large to directly attack without harming the planet as well.
If their bodies weren’t a factor, then they could have just physically shrunk down to the point that they could safely address the Old Gods situation in person.
Argus is… weird. He is just weird. I think he is basically the prime example of what happens when core lore gets swapped around multiple times.
Legion: He was 100% intended to be a Titan. World Souls were solidly Titans in this era.
Shadowlands: He is now a being of death because Dreadlords, and it was all the Jailor’s ultimate plan to make him an eternal one?
Worldsoul Saga: Turns out Worldsouls are basically Eevee, and they turn into whatever you want if you force feed them enough of your preferred flavor of cosmic kool-aid.
So, as it is right now, Argus was apparently forcefully woken up and manifested into a quasi-titan by the Pantheon to use as an arcane battery, but once we murdered him he fell into the Shadowlands because of the Dreadlords secretly pumping him full of death Kool-Aid and no one ever noticing.
Then we murdered him again and made him double dead… and hopefully the poor guy has been put out of his misery.
I’m still pulling for Argus and Azeroth being some kind of yin/yang twins of Creation and Destruction. Doubtful at this point, but it always seemed the most satisfying to me in the Warcraft mythos.
Given Pelagos, it doesn’t seem like the nature of the soul driving the Eternal Husk really matters all that much.
Dude what? Titans have bodies. Sargeras used an avatar on Azeroth because he couldn’t get his whole body over there.
When Aman’thul was killed by Sargeras, Norgannon’s spell sent his spirit to Keeper Ra on Azeroth. If the Titans are just spirits then Sargeras would never have needed to be summoned to Azeroth.
I am not talking about the beginning of Legion though. I’m talking about the end, after you completed the Antorus raid. There is no secret left for the devs to be keeping. You just killed Argus, and you walk over to Khadgar and he has dialog. He states Azeroth is the final titan.
Or we see them manifesting physically from their actual spirits. Something we see elementals do. Heck, something we see ghosts do.
You keep talking about their “avatar bodies”, but this is not DnD. We have nothing showing the titans used avatars. In fact, we have evidence that isn’t the case with the Eternal Ones; the Arbiter and Zovaal did not have avatar bodies; we smash their bodies, they die. They are alleged in the lore to be like the Titans, but for death. The titans escaped this fate via Norgannon spell, which wouldn’t even be necessary if their bodies were irrelevant.
In fact, the one example in the lore we have of a titan using an avatar, the Avatar of Sargeras, it was certainly not treated as Sargeras simply manifesting himself; it was a constructed form and not simply him manifesting. Destroying it didn’t disembody Sargeras, because it was never simply the physical form he chose to wear. Him using the avatar was never treated as Sargeras himself being on Azeroth.
The titans do not use avatar bodies the way you are describing. They very clearly do (or rather did) have physical forms. That’s why it necessitated a whole Well of Eternity or sky rift for Sargeras to actually reach Azeroth, and not some portal-making device his eredar minions created which expressly only allowed a portion of him to cross over.
By contrast, Sargeras is not described as defeating vessels housing a portion of the Pasntheons’ souls. When we free the Pantheon, we are not freeing a portion of them that was held within avatars Sargeras defeated. They are not manifesting as only a portion of the titans when they help us defeat Argus. Those are described in the raid and after as the whole of the titans.
None of the lore backs up what you’re saying. I’m sorry.
Fun Note to Remember: The Avatar of Sargeras only hosted a small shard of his soul, as any more than that and no portal available to him, even with the scepter that could theoretically collapse the universe if misused, would be enough to allow him to pass through it.
The Avatar was little more than a Sargeras Mini-Me.
Azsharz is to me the pillar of the lore by her actions which led to 2 major events that are mentioned every single expensions : War of the ancients and The Sundering.
These 2 events have shaped the world of Azeroth and impacted everyone and everything, so much so that even now we still talk about it.
This makes Azshara in my opinion the most influencal antagonist in the lore.
They use avatars… literally, there isn’t any lore, not even in chronicle, suggesting the origin of Titans is in bodies at all. The bodies they move around in are always avatars. Argus was a World Soul and created himself an avatar when we fought him in Antorus; same as the other Titans on the pantheon making their own avatars. Distance was irrelevant, Argus didn’t have any original body anywhere. Sargeras doesn’t have any original body anywhere. Aman’thul and Eonar never had any original bodies anywhere. They are all World Souls. World Souls have to travel also.
I think you may be confused about something… but we didn’t really “kill” Argus, we simply defeated his avatar and sent him back to his world soul form; which had implied adventures off in shadowland off screen thereafter.
That’s what an avatar is… what are you not getting?
What…? The ending of the sepulchre raid literally proved that Zovaal was in an avatar body… that was the entire purpose of that boss-defeat cinematic.
Chris Metzen and the Chronicle book says exactly the opposite.
They absolutely and undeniably “are”…that’s why Chronicle describes Titan World Souls the way it does. The lore proves you wrong.
I am pretty sure you are arguing with a brick wall
Well, clearly arguing with someone who doesn’t know the definition of the word avatar at least 
Uhh… No. That’s head canon.
In DnD. Not WoW.
Him dying the final death is not exactly proving the point you think you’re making.
Actually they don’t.
It really doesn’t.
I think you may be right.
A brick wall with limited A.I intelligence at least. Got to give SOME doubt