we are at a point in the timeline we are dealing with literal creators of the universe, How would you all rank the relevance of each major WoW villain we have encountered so far, based off things like "damage severity, importance, and reflection towards current events where we still see after effects of them? do you think there’s a likelihood we will see any old villains make a return post “the last titan”?
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Considering Azeroth seems to not be a Titan and the Titan Pantheon is dead, The Last Titan is Sargeras, so I imagine we’ll be seeing him again somehow.
Not sure what you mean, the burning legion and void lords and titans did not create the universe. And the Titans are not dead.
But you said old villains, so do you mean warcraft 3 villains that you want to see again?
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? The titans aren’t dead. They just chilling while chaining up Sargeras right now.
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The Titans are dead.
Well… Mostly Dead. Which isn’t the same as All Dead. They are basically souped up ghosts right now, as their true bodies and most their power was lost when Sargeras murdered them all millions of years ago.
That is why it took all of them, and the seat of the Pantheon, and the power they squeezed out of Argus before he fell into the shadowlands to put Sargeras in the bad boy timeout corner.
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Titans are so frustrating, bahahaha
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Not really no. Titans did not create the universe, nor did the Eternals, or the Old gods, they are elder entities of their respective realms… but they didn’t create a universe unto themselves. At most the Eternals actually created microcosms or “realms” within a universe that is the Shadowlands, the First Ones created the vast majority of the universes and dimensions we see, with exception of the Great Dark Beyond (the mortal plane and residence of Titans) and the Twisting Nether, these were made by primordial Light and Void as cosmic forces colliding.
We have yet to (knowingly) encounter a First One.
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I want the Pantheon to do a musical number about this.
“Iiiiiiii… Ain’t got no boooooody!!”
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You say that, but remember, Sargeras took them all down when they were still planet-sized, so needing the power of Argus to bind him doesn’t necessarily reflect on their comparative power at the time. Even at full strength in their original forms, his use of the fel overpowered them.
One might even speculate that Argus’ power being changed by Disorder and Death could have been what allowed them to finally imprison Sargeras with it in spite of their own natures still being Ordered and weak against the fel.
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I’m not seeing any evidence for “any” deadness on the part of Titans. From everything in game the only accusation of them being more than zero percent dead was Khadgar jumping to a false conclusion in error at the beginning of Legion because the writers needed to stall and delay the reveal that they were going to show us Titans imprisoned in Antorus rather than being dead later on in their expansion. We don’t know of the Titans ever having any “bodies” anywhere, even before their confrontation with Sargeras. The avatars they make for themselves out of stone or metal are not the source of their existence. They showed us that they could make new ones in the little scene change cinematic on the seat of the pantheon where they show up as star souls first, and magically create avatar bodies a few moments later.
They are dead. Sargeras killed them. What we saw in Legion were their spirits. We rescued their spirits during the Antoras raid.
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Adelaide… what exactly do you think Titans are? They never came from bodies, Titans are magical world souls. Always were. Sargeras was never able to “kill” them. He was only able to defeat and imprison them. Khadgar was mistaken.
In the optional dialog after Argus is defeated and we go home, Khadgar does still say there is only one titan left (Azeroth). So at least the in-universe characters seem to believe the titans are not quite alive.
I think. Maybe. Sorta. This is all just super weird and should have been made much more clear.
How did we beat up Aggramar if he did not have a body and was already dead? We weren’t even in the Shadowlands yet!!
I do not think they thought of these things.
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What are you even talking about? The Titans absolutely did have bodies and Sargeras killed them. Norgannon used a spell that sent their spirits into hiding and Sargeras eventually tracked them down except for Eonar. Aman’thul’s spirit went to Keeper Ra for example.
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It straight up says in Chronicle that Sargeras destroyed them, up until Legion they were thought outright dead-dead… but then they added in Norgannon managed a spell at the last moment to preserve their spirits and cast them out into the Great Dark though their bodies were destroyed.
After that they went into hiding and got hunted down one by one to be tortured into Sargeras’ service. That was where we came in.
So yeah, they are Mostly Dead. For some reason they pointedly avoided going to Zereth Ordus to be refitted with a new body, though. That one hasn’t been explained yet within the Shadowlands lore refit.
They appear to be actively retconing this, as World Souls are not titans by nature, they are only Titans if the Pantheon gets to them and effectually corrupts them into one.
They probabl didn’t want to have to keep doing a goofy questline for five weeks before they could unlock flying. Also, they did not wish to spend days hunting down rares. I do not blame them. I too would have rather just hung out in spirit form in the Seat than do more Zereth stuff if I could help it!!
Ahem. More seriously though.
We do know from Shadowlands and the Zereth Mortis stuff that it isn’t as simple as just going there and getting a refit body. The dead guys had to work together to unlock the way for us, ignoring all of Zovaal’s shenanigans to get there, and outside agents had to make the bodies (see: Arbiter 3.0 body) and use magic to stuff the soul into the body.
So they probably didn’t do it because it might not work that way.
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I have a lingering suspicion they avoided it because directly mucking about in the Great Dark isn’t something their bosses intended the Titans to be doing… So they were avoiding reporting back home, so to speak.
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Or they got the Zerith Mortis memo.
Hey guys, last time someone tried magical shenanigans, a bunch of mortals showed up and went on a murderous rampage. Just like…knock it off okay?
On a serious note though, the whole Zerith Ordus wasn’t even a thing when blizz decided to kill off the titans in Chronicles, just to introduce them at the end of legion anyway
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'tis true. I am just very curious to see how they manage to weave some of that old lore and new stuff together as there are some obvious and gapaing plot holes this saga has to cover.
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If this saga wasn’t taking place entirely on Azeroth, I would say sure. That the Zerith stuff should be answered.
But than again, for all we know, there is no Zerith Ordus and Zerith Mortis is it, since we know Zerith Mortis is SOLELY responsible for pumping out new life forms for the worlds/afterlifes that are created from the Realm of the First Ones.