Pretty much every guild that goes for CE does it for the act of doing it and not for gear considering they literally sacrifice 3 months worth of gear from the raid to achieve it due to extending…
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There’s no need for multiple gear sets.
Those people are going after CE, an achievement, an incentive.
There is no reason to do keys between 21 and 26ish, several people do those levels because they enjoy keys. After you get one 20 of a key done, you don’t have any incentive to do another of the same key after 15. I know I’m not getting the title, I have all portals, but I’m still going because keys are fun. Gear isn’t even on my radar. M+ is super popular, (usually) lasts a whole expansion, and is the future of WoW.
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Will be as popular as torghast.
Gear motivates us. Lack of it = meh. Raiding is too dang stingy. This isn’t 2004 anymore either. They butchered a pillar by having one being the de facto gearing up method. By the time you see meaningful loot in a raid, you’re already geared beyond it. This is not a problem on the mythic plus side of things, but a problem with stubbornness and pride from the developers having loot being handed out at a crawl in a raid environment.
How foolish to have a heroic setting and yet you must be heroic ilvl geared to participate. This boggles the mind.
wiggles toes
So the one 304 a week invalidates all of heroic progression.
That would signify that:
Wow’s player base will not commit to a weekly schedule.
Heroic and mythic raiding is over tuned compared to the skill level of the vast majority of the playerbase. aka too hard to be fun/worth the effort, so they garner low participation
Mythic + might be too easy, and thus the path of least resistance, but you would have to stick your head in the sand and ignore the fact that raiding has been on the decline for over a decade.
And why are we putting heroic on a pedestal anyways? The parity with high end M+, and elite conquest level pvp, is mythic raiding, not heroic raiding.
I agreed with everything except the difficulty curve, I literally watch netflix through most prog raids as a tank.
Raids are not engaging as a tank player wich is why I’ve all but stopped bothering, It’s 3 hours two times a week of idly thumbing keys while watching orange is the new black, Or Game of thrones, Or Star trek, Or Halo, Or the Expanse.
Mostly because tank mechanics are obnoxiously simple and require very little attention, I can narrow 90% of tank mechanics to one phrase for the last 10 years of raiding.
Taunt at X Stacks.
You should raid Mythic. Plenty to do as a tank, there.
I’ve done it for years, And again it’s 90% “taunt at X stacks” Shadowlands is the first expansion i’ve stopped bothering raiding almost entirely, I did half of mythic nath in 9.0 and then some of Sanctum and just stopped, And doing one round of heroic sepulchre it’s again mostly the same.
Doing Mythic Denathrius positioning downstairs, or cleaning platforms on Sylvanas, are hardly “taunt at X stacks” fights. Especially since you have to go off on your own to do it, away from the raid (and in Sire’s case, with a big monkey boss beating the tar out of you while you’re off by yourself).
So you picked the two bosses the whole game that still are 90% taunt on X, But have one additional thing)
Just for reference outside of the positioning of Daddy D it’s all taunt on X stacks.
I say this while tanking heroic Xymox in a pug, Tanking isn’t engaging in a raid, The fact that I have enough time to post on forums while in an active fight says a lot about how boring it is tanking in raids, And how easy and dis-engaging it is.
The Heroic comp is based on where the gear iLevel caps for rewards and I think that’s fair. If you go by potential difficulty then of course you jump to Mythic Raiding but it’s still apples to oranges.
Mythic Blood Council, Mythic SLG, Mythic Sludgefist (easy, but still…), Mythic KT, Mythic Guardian, Mythic Painsmith… the list goes on and on. “Taunt on X stacks” bosses with nothing else to do are extremely rare on Mythic.
Add Mythic mechanics to Normal and Heroic, then. Have fun!
Heroic drops 291-297
Valor upgrades are 262-297
Mythic+ (End of Dungeon) is 262-288
You can get 288 faster than heroic can gear out in 291, sure. But you aren’t out gearing the raid, you are progressing farther in one pillar than another, and then comparing apples to oranges.
Literally swapping on X stacks with some movement involved
Taunting isnt’ even needed you just have to be stacked together
Taunting adds (Vanquisher) at X stacks, Taunting KT at X stacks, Occasionally move
We have a new mec- Wait it’s just a reshashed mechanic of a previous raid where the tank runs out and doesn’t rail everything and also taunt swap- oh wait it’s literaly taunt on X
I’m sorry, I want to agree with you but at the end of the day tanking just isn’t engaging in a raid and it does fall down to Taunt at X for pretty much everything.
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Pretty much said this myself. THere needs to be bigger incentives over Mythic + and there’s nothing that trumps it. Mythic + has basically every gear with everyone’s preferred stats if they want that. The gear from there is upgradable and be able to keep the gear we want if it has upgraded stats on it. And it is grindable, repeatable.
Nothing from the Raid that competes with that. If they made it possible to upgrade Raid gear too, it would be much better. Or perhaps to grab gear with its own currency when we can’t seem to grab the ones we are missing.
I hope they don’t do anything to M+. Its actually fine the way it is now (Minus how they kept capping Valor before). They just need to give us more reasons to be bothering with something that doesn’t guarantee us a piece of gear or three per weekly lockout. I’d have that much out of M+ by that point…!
No
I do not want to be forced into raiding so I can do M+
And raiders don’t want to be forced into M+ in order to gear to do the raid, but that’s been the case since Nighthold.
I think you missed the point.
I’m saying Heroic Raiding is a good comp for M+ when you look at the difficulty of each at the point the rewards end. For M+ that’s finishing a 15.
I can see the value in mythic raiding having weekly lockouts. The vault is fine. But regular mythic dungeons … normal raiding, heroic raiding, all need to be infinitely repeatable.
The stupid relic of the past, LOCKOUTS FOR ALL . .needs to die.
I didn’t miss the point. You’re wrong.
Either mythic+ need to be harder, or mythic and heroic raiding needs to be easier.
Since M+ is wildly popular, and raiding has been dying for as long as I ran remember. I’m going with making raiding more accessible to the player base by reducing the difficulty.
You’re not forced to. I stated there needs to be reasons to be willing to do it as an option. Just because you don’t want to doesn’t mean you’re forced to. Again, M+ is fine, Raid isn’t. Its great when you can get something you want, that’s one thing. Its another when RNG is utter trash. I only bother touching it because I want transmogs but beyond that, I haven’t since I got my Slime Saber. And why? Its gear can’t be upgraded, it hardly ever drops either. I want a actual reason to do Raiding but they aren’t providing it over M+