That’s why I said prioritize making raiding a better experience. But even then they’ll probably need to touch M+ a little bit. Not much, just a little. Because it really isn’t good that M+ makes two entire difficulties completely irrelevant.
But you’d know I said that and that I said it’s nigh impossible to have actual balance between M+ and raid if you read the whole thing instead of just skimming and finding the one line you didn’t like 
Or they could separate them from eachother. They do this already in PvP where PvP gear gets upgraded in PvP content. Mythic+ gear would get upgraded in mythic+ content. But if they did this, they should actually buff mythic+ drops imo
I got that vibe too and I created the thread.
cackles and wiggles toes
I don’t know how to respond. So Transformers it is.
You would fragment the player base even further, and kill raiding completely.
They don’t have to do M+, just like they don’t have to pvp till 2100.
If your raid is invalidating progression because they run M+, then you are mythic raiders, not heroic ones.
Raid loot should have an item level boost in Raid just like PVP does in Arena. Mythic+ should not be best in slot for raid progression
I feel like the playerbase comes up and brainstorms actual solutions more than the devs do.
A million times THIS
I want to M+
If raiding is only viable Option I won’t be playing
That I can agree with, yes, giving them separate loot that is essentially less effective outside of the environment you got them from would make it easier to balance them, like with PvP loot. I’m not entirely convinced I want that, though. Multirole classes (those poor, poor druids…) already have to lug around multiple sets of gear for each role they want to play. Separating M+ and raid loot would essentially double that if they want to do both, too. Maybe if we also had an inventory overhaul that allowed us to carry multiple sets of gear without filling up our bags? looks at FF14 armory system
Then you kill raiding. Pvp’ers already don’t raid. If there is separate gear then M+'s wont either.
Yes because nobody actually wants to raid for the raiding.
If your response to make raid gear only good in raid is “that’ll kill raiding” then that means raiding is not fun.
Sorry bub, incentives rule the world. Lets see how popular mythic raiding is with no gear, just mounts and cosmetics eh.
People do M+21 and higher without incentives all the time. Can you say that about raiding? No because raiding is boring
They do it for competitiveness. Because you have a chance, even if you aren’t a giant org. You aren’t getting world first in raiding … period.
I’m not sure it’s that rampant of a problem but adding in a fix for those people could mitigate it I guess.
I can’t speak for all mythic+ players but I’ll raid based on these criteria
Automatic group making for the obvious reason of getting alts into the raid. It’s been shown now that players can’t handle making their own groups
It’s a pleasant experience where I’m not wiping on a boss and having the group disband
It’s not a huge time sink
I can upgrade gear over time
Gear drops more frequently
That’s not the point. The point is why bother have Normal and Heroic difficulties if M+ makes them entirely irrelevant. You already have LFR if you just want to do the raid for the story. In an ideal world Normal and Heroic would be alternative gearing paths, but they really aren’t because they’re extremely limited with weekly lockouts, low drop rates and organizational hurdles, plus are a lot less effecient with all the trash that needs to be killed and how easily one person’s mistake can wipe a boss attempt, whereas M+ is infinitely spammable, has a higher reward rate, is faster and more efficient, a lot less strict on organization, and gives equivalent or better gear.
At that point you might as well delete normal and heroic, make Mythic flexible raid size and call it a day. Except that that would be a horrible idea and not at all an ideal solution.
Why do we have normal dungeons, heroic dungeons, and mythic dungeons? Everything makes them irrelevant …
You’re right about Heroic dungeons at the very least. Normal at least serves a purpose for leveling up, and Mythic is a stepping stone from leveling gear to M+ and raiding, at least initially it does. When catch up gear becomes available then yeah mythic dungeons suddenly becomes irrelevant, too. So yes, you’re right about them being an issue, too.
I raid because it’s a good relaxing fun time with my guild. I would absolutely never pug a raid though because of several of the reasons you stated, so yes, I can very much so agree with your sentiment there. And even with my mates, I feel like the raid experience needs drastic improvement. Especially with all the trash… no one likes such excessive amounts of time wasting trash.
Raiding already has all of the BiS items this tier so I assume you aren’t playing?