The problem is, M+ timed run mentality has seeped into non-Mythic dungeons.
It’s just become so ingrained in WoW that you can’t remove it. Even if you did remove the timers, people would still insist on speedruns every time, all the time.
The only way you could do any different is make dungeons more linear and put more roadblocks in that require trash to be pulled. This would, of course, anger the players.
You got FFXIV and WoW.
The former is loved by most who play it, and they sing praises up, down, and sideways everywhere their community congregates, whether it’s on Youtube, discord, etc. The Lead Developer is absolutely adored by the community.
The latter has some of the most vicious whining against it everywhere its community congregates online, the lead developers are mostly hated, people bash the design philosophy left and right, major streamers can’t find much of anything good to say about any aspect of the game.
Funny enough XIV did just that! Idk. I think WoW dungeons in general are more fun than the dungeons in XIV, which mostly feel very… hmm… forgettable? They just don’t really make an impression on me. They don’t really feel like events as much as things I’m just kind of going through the motions in.
There is no disputing that the experience is much more pleasant though. It’s just more easy-going and all around less pressure. I think a big issue in WoW is that failure can be high stakes, particularly in things like M+. This breeds a lot of player resentment and hostility.
I used to run daily heroics in Pandaria, and there was some speedrunning going on, but nowhere near the ludicrous things people try to do to save time these days. It wasn’t anywhere near as bad back in Pandaria.
Maybe the trash pulls are kinda ‘eh’, but I dunno about you, but I always thought the bosses were way better designed and more unique than WoW bosses.
I did Plaguefall the other day and… outside of the last boss, I can’t really tell you that I remember any of the bosses’ mechanics or anything special about any of them other than that guy that annoyingly jumps around a giant puddle of goo that constantly hurts you while you have to chase him down which was more “annoying” than “fun”. This tends to be what 99% of WoW dungeons are like, the bosses are “is this a boss?” type thing.
Do me a favor. Click on the forums bread crumb at the topic and read the line of text directly above the “General Discussion” link. Just in case you are confused it states “Discuss World of Warcraft”. Meaning while yes, this is a general discussion it is a general discussion about WoW.
I think it’s the trash pulls being mostly brain dead and the environments feeling noisy and over stimulating, particularly some of the more recent dungeons. XIV is a very flashy game. I just feel a lot more grounded in WoW in general. I never really feel immersed in XIV, more like I’m watching someone else’s story. When I’m playing WoW I feel very “in” the world. This is a reason I’m not thrilled on Shadowlands as a setting, because it is invoking the disconnected feeling that I get when I play XIV.
So just in general I think XIV doesn’t really convince me of itself the way WoW does. There also feels like there are a lot of dungeons that you do once then never really do again, so there isn’t this feeling of deep familiarity that I have with WoW’s many dungeons. Sometimes I queue up the Roulette and it gives me a dungeon I’ve done maybe twice 3 years ago and I’m like “What is this place again?” lol
Plenty of people are here because they loved WoW, and they want WoW to get better and the only way that WoW can get better is if we discuss the problems that WoW has, and how WoW can do better.
Sometimes this involves providing examples of other games that do said thing better, or differently. We’re not saying we want WoW to become any of these other games, but games can and do borrow ideas from their fellows, many times to great effect.
This has literally been there since WOTLK. They added in the dungeon finder and gave you daily rewards for doing it. Then you had heirlooms making your alts way out scale low level dungeons. So you just plowed through the dungeons in 10-15 minutes.
Once they started that trend they couldn’t pull back on it.
The game builds incentives for it.
IE Player commendations = Parade Chocobo
Everyone wants the parade chocobo.
All Blizzard would have to do is add a Player Reputation bar where commendations give you rep and infractions cost you a ton of rep (and tmogs / mounts / titles / pets unlocked by high rep are barred until you get your rep back up).
I am inclined to agree with Fyfaesias statement here. The smaller dungeons are not really amazing per say, some of them are minor parts of the overall story. It is usually the more story-loaded dungeons that have made an impact, such as the ones in Heavensward and Shadowbringers, especially Amaurot I still remember.
People who were on a 6m sub who want WoW to get better come back here from time to time to suggest to Blizzard ideas that are working in other games.
I think it’s pretty much pointless because Blizzard thinks you need a game design degree and 5+ years in the industry to know if a game is fun or not lol.