Layering - What am I missing?

[Fury-lethon (Fury)]

Anything in software can be fixed. It’s just how extreme of an option. I don’t like the idea, but user selected on creation, locked layers, would solve any claim you have, except for complaining about merging servers.

Locked layers which merge later would be better than the layering they have now. As long as you could pick one and play where your friend is on and it wasn’t literally locked on full.

Blizzard has said there’s bugs. I noticed on many of those videos, the information is from some few weeks back. Aside from group control hopping, are the problems still happening? (with proof, not claims).

Blizzard said the border phasing (sharding) was a bug. They have not commented or changed the issues on the videos and these were posted all within 1-5 days ago. Some footage may be old but it’s still in game and listen to anyone with in depth experience to see how bad it is. People with hundreds of hours in the beta absolutely hate it. On the actual launch the effects will be even worse.

Sure we could assume Blizzard will fix it but why not err on the side of caution and not dismiss this? It doesn’t hurt to be loud and show these issues because if you are right and they fix them we all win anyway. If we follow your advice and hope Blizzard just fixes it, this could pass by them unchanged. Why act this way?

[Ohshiftson-area-52]

No, actually, layering gives me the same competition I had in 2004.

No, it doesn’t. It vastly increases the competition by flooding the economy with more resources as more people are able to play concurrently.

Layering isn’t going to solve the fact you have to fight for mob tags during the game’s launch. The beta and stress test(s) showed that quite clearly. You’ve argued many times that layering will work as if it would have an entire realm’s population in at once. How, then, is layering going to solve your issue with competition?

But hey, you didn’t have to wait in a queue during launch day, so it was worth ruining the game, right?

I accept the reality of the world…

Yeah, you just gladly lap up whatever reality Blizzard feeds you.

I accept that Blizzard intends to add layering to Classic. That doesn’t mean I like it, nor does it mean Blizzard should add layering to Classic.

[Morghast-cenarius]

I wish they would decide to launch a couple of no-layers servers just for the people who really hate them. They can have their queues and crowds and the rest of us can have a playable game right from the start. Heck, if enough people insist on being on the no-layers servers, we might not need layers on the rest of them.

[Biardi-aggramar (Biardi)]

Layering is trash. Wow was so great back then because you had one whole unbroken immersive world.
Layering breaks a lot of the magic that was original wow.
So funny enough layering will actually help classic fail.
When in hindsight all they had to do was tell people to wait in ques. Instead they decide to over engineer a solution that will kill the MMORPG side of it.

Tldr: if you want a singleplayer game play live.

[Eloraell-moon-guard]

it wasn’t literally locked on full.

It would be. There is always a limit which is why from what I’ve seen, a heavily populated layer won’t always bring people to the leader, by may take the leader away, currently.

If you used locked layers, after a certain point there would be no more ability to choose that layer. Thus why its not the preferred option.

[Eloraell-moon-guard]

It vastly increases the competition by flooding the economy with more resources as more people are able to play concurrently.

And also increases the consumers of those resources by the same amount.

Layering isn’t going to solve the fact you have to fight for mob tags during the game’s launch.

It’s not meant to remove it. It will give you the equivalent of 2004, where we had plenty of congestion. But you’ll be competing with whoever of 3000 is in your zone, not whoever of 9000.

How, then, is layering going to solve your issue with competition?

I don’t have an issue with competition between 3000 people. That’s what I want. I have an issue with 9000 people at once. The fact that you don’t understand that after all this time, just means you’re reading what you want and ignoring what I’m saying.

I accept that Blizzard intends to add layering to Classic. That doesn’t mean I like it, nor does it mean Blizzard should add layering to Classic.

… or that you have a better solution that would not destroy the launch experience.

[Ohshiftson-area-52]

And also increases the consumers of those resources by the same amount.

Okay? My point still stands. The issue is the rate at which those resources are gathered is vastly higher than if we had no changes.

It will give you the equivalent of 2004,

What? I thought your whole argument is that the vast amount of players at Classic’s launch WON’T be equivalent to

I don’t have an issue with competition between 3000 people. That’s what I want. I have an issue with 9000 people at once.

That makes no sense. The cap in vanilla is 3,000 people per realm, is it not? You won’t be competing with 9,000 people at once.

a better solution that would not destroy the launch experience.

Layering will destroy the launch experience. It’s specifically designed to do so, because people like you don’t like the launch experience.

[Eloraell-moon-guard]

The issue is the rate at which those resources are gathered is vastly higher than if we had no changes.

And conversely the rate they are consumed is higher too, resulting in a net equal player per resource rate.

What? I thought your whole argument is that the vast amount of players at Classic’s launch WON’T be equivalent to

That makes no sense. The cap in vanilla is 3,000 people per realm, is it not? You won’t be competing with 9,000 people at once.

Err… You do know how layering works right??

The default setup is 3000 people per layer, with 3 layers = 9000 people. The server caps will be raised, otherwise layering does nothing of worth. The point is not to make levelling easier, they’re essentially providing 100’s of servers without the need to manually merge them in 3 months.

If you’re asking these questions, you don’t know how layering works, which explains why your arguments sounded like nonsense.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

Okay? My point still stands. The issue is the rate at which those resources are gathered is vastly higher than if we had no changes.

So what, there will also be more people using those resources.

Layering will destroy the launch experience. It’s specifically designed to do so, because people like you don’t like the launch experience.

What launch experience? You mean servers won’t randomly go down and be down for days and there won’t be massive queues? Yeah I don’t mind that being ruined.

[Ohshiftson-area-52]

If you’re asking these questions, you don’t know how layering works, which explains why your arguments sounded like nonsense.

I understand how layering works. You’re the one not making any sense.

You’re not competing with 9,000 people UNLESS you have layering. You are saying you want the level of competition you experienced in vanilla, yet you want to INCREASE competition by letting more people into the server at once.

Remember?

layering gives me the same competition I had in 2004.

I don’t have an issue with competition between 3000 people. That’s what I want. I have an issue with 9000 people at once.

The cap in vanilla is 3,000 people per realm, is it not?

The default setup is 3000 people per layer, with 3 layers = 9000 people.

If the cap is 3,000, and Blizzard doesn’t change it, you’ll never compete with 9,000 people.
If the competition you experience from 3,000 people is too much, layering won’t solve the problem.

So what, there will also be more people using those resources.

Production is usually higher than consumption in an MMO.

There’s a reason prices go down over time, not up.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

I understand how layering works. You’re the one not making any sense.

You’re not competing with 9,000 people UNLESS you have layering. You are saying you want the level of competition you experienced in vanilla, yet you want to INCREASE competition by letting more people into the server at once.

Remember?

9000 people competing with 9000 people is the same as 3000 people competing with 3000 people.

[Ohshiftson-area-52]

9000 people competing with 9000 people is the same as 3000 people competing with 3000 people.

Tell that to Eloraell, not me. They’re the one with a problem with 9,000 but not 3,000.

[Meingott-emerald-dream (Meingott)]

Its because the underlying assumption with layering is that mega servers with multiple layers will see a drop off of players and thus will no longer need layering after phase 1.

What happens if people keep playing? What do they do then?

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

9000 people competing with 9000 people is the same as 3000 people competing with 3000 people.

Tell that to Eloraell, not me. They’re the one with a problem with 9,000 but not 3,000.

She doesn’t have an issue with it? What she said was 9000 people competing for 3000 people worth of resources is stupid which it is.

[Necrosis-hakkar (Necrosis)]

It is very clunky. The Idea is that they are just going to shard the server instead of the zones. The issue with this is is still has the massive flaw of you the player being randomly teleported to a different layer due to massive changes in the population of players. I short the only thing that layering has over sharding is the fact that you are no longer forced into a different shard based on zone population, but the server population instead.

[Ohshiftson-area-52]

9000 people competing for 3000 people worth of resources is stupid

Why? That’s called… competition.

If it were 9,000 people and 9,000 people’s worth of resources, there would be no competition.

If you don’t like competition, go play retail.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

9000 people competing for 3000 people worth of resources is stupid

Why? That’s called… competition.

If it were 9,000 people and 9,000 people’s worth of resources, there would be no competition.

If you don’t like competition, go play retail.

That’s fine, so you want blizzard to change all the spawn rates of everything to account for 9000 people instead of 3000?

[Ohshiftson-area-52]

so you want blizzard to change all the spawn rates of everything to account for 9000 people instead of 3000?

No. Learn to read.

I said if you don’t want competition, go play retail.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

so you want blizzard to change all the spawn rates of everything to account for 9000 people instead of 3000?

No. Learn to read.

I said if you don’t want competition, go play retail.

There was a ton of competition in the stress tests.

[Ohshiftson-area-52]

There was a ton of competition in the stress tests.

Then layering doesn’t solve competition, so why do people try to justify layering with “I hate sitting around waiting for mobs” and other such statements?