Layer Hopping now has Internal Cooldown

[Ryzix-dragonmaw]

This is what’s going to happen.

A certain amount of players will want to be wherever it’s most populated. So they’ll ask for invites to “layer over.”

So you start with this:
3,000
3,000
3,000
2,500

Then you get this:

4,500
2,500
2,500
1,500

New players logging in will go to the least populated layer. Now groups start to form for quests/dungeons and what not.

Well MOST of the groups will be formed from the more populated layers simply because more players will be there to start groups. More people will be layed over to join them.

So you get this:

5,500
2,250
2,250
1,000

As more players log in they’ll join the Ghost town layer.

You see the problem right? Hell some people will never log out and just run a macro to prevent afk. It just gets worse.

Now you get the issue of people wanting to do quests in the underpop areas., but some of them will want to group to do it. Guess what? Now people have to log out, wait, then reinvite their group to layer back.

It’s a non vanilla nightmare waiting to happen.

[Studmuffyn-veknilash (Studmuffyn)]

Retail kiddies ask for Flying… I don’t see flying in Beta so far… the hell Blizz!?

yah we all want to see the backs of all the 2d buildings!

[Vitolri-moon-guard]

Probably so they can do it as cheaply as possible

Cheaply as possible is not adding new tech to an old system, then developing even MORE tech to try to make that work together. That costs money. If Blizz wanted to do it cheaply: “Deal with queues and crashes for the first month or so. That’s how Vanilla was.”

Also because the demographic they are using for feedback is the retail kiddies that put retail in the state that it is in.

Considering some of the big names from the real vanilla days coming out of the woodwork, it’s not entirely the case. I feel like Blizz devs have made several statements that if people wanted retail things, BFA is that way.

[Pwnsdruid-burning-blade]

It would be pretty difficult to make that happen though. By time you get 4,500 players, you would most likely end up with:

3,000
3,000
3,000
1,500 (Queue focus fills this first)
1,000

I didn’t show the best examples with the numbers, but you should get the general idea of what I was saying.

[Slientknight-blackrock (Slientknight)]

Probably so they can do it as cheaply as possible

Cheaply as possible is not adding new tech to an old system, then developing even MORE tech to try to make that work together. That costs money. If Blizz wanted to do it cheaply: “Deal with queues and crashes for the first month or so. That’s how Vanilla was.”

Also because the demographic they are using for feedback is the retail kiddies that put retail in the state that it is in.

Considering some of the big names from the real vanilla days coming out of the woodwork, it’s not entirely the case. I feel like Blizz devs have made several statements that if people wanted retail things, BFA is that way.

Yep, that might be why people are here complaining about layering, and the current state of beta. Layering is totally a retail sort of tech. Writing software to implement in their current servers, is probably cheaper than buying new servers and writing software for it as well. Which the right way to do it would be to buy servers and dedicate them for classic rather than to stitch together the stuff they have. I mean we are really literally paying a premium price for a game, we deserve premium quality. (Modern Premium Price for a 15 yo game)

Let that sink in.

[Studmuffyn-veknilash (Studmuffyn)]

I feel like Blizz devs have made several statements that if people wanted retail things, BFA is that way.

I dunno if I am misreading what you meant or not(tired eyes), but they have said this for a couple of things here and there, if thats what you meant, cool, if not , I remember that from i thnk the creator summit, and Ion once or twice too at other times.

[Pwnsdruid-burning-blade]

we are really literally paying a premium price for a game, we deserve premium quality

So a game that is completely playable in every aspect minus Layering is a premium game? While a completely playable in every aspect game with Layering is not?

[Ryzix-dragonmaw]

Take Skyrim.

Now have all the NPC’s randomly disappear 3 out of 4 days, because they are on different layers.
Gratz, layering.

Don’t worry though if you keep reloading eventually you’ll see them.

Sounds terrible.

[Pwnsdruid-burning-blade]

Skyrim is not WoW =P. Your example kind of proves pointless when the affects are different.

[Ryzix-dragonmaw]

In a single player game the focus is on the NPCS.

In an MMO it’s on the other players.

I see no difference.

[Vedarian-thunderlord]

True, but you would have to assume that retail players are going to be the majority of the tourists.

Nah, I have more faith in Classic to draw in tourists who are new as well.

People that are already paying for wow and just get it added free to their sub, of course will pop in since it doesn’t cost them anything extr

What makes that any different than someone who starts a sub later, they both are ‘getting it for free’, and no, the ones who hate it are not going to waste their time.

On the other hand are people who aren’t currently subbed to wow having to sign up and pay the money just to play classic are probably going to stick around longer.

and those are the only groups that will try Classic? and there is no guarantee that any group will stick around longer.

Possible players from non subscribers dwarf any number of current subs that will play , so if a large segment of Classic population ends up being from current, that would be a massive failure.

Then there is always how do you define a ‘tourist’? Just someone who tries it and quits? or someone who plays a few hours a week but also plays the other versions a few hours as well? How many hours does someone have to play to be considered a non tourist?

It’s only rational to assume that someone who is starting a new sub and paying 15 dollars just to play classic is going to be more invested in sticking around and playing it than someone who is already subbed to retail and is just getting classic for “free”.

Having some skin in the game, (paying money out that you weren’t paying before), is a sign that you are there to play classic and not retail.

So yes, “tourists” however you want to define them will be more likely from retail players than new subs

[Slientknight-blackrock (Slientknight)]

we are really literally paying a premium price for a game, we deserve premium quality

So a game that is completely playable in every aspect minus Layering is a premium game? While a completely playable in every aspect game with Layering is not?

It’s more in reference to the back-end of things, but pretty much, yep.
Let’s look at a couple reasons to use layering.
Convenience?
Is it more convenient for the players to have layering? Are we bringing the convenience mindset that put retail where it is today back to classic?
Cheaper?
Is it cheaper to stitch together current servers to provide a subpar service at a premium price?

[Pwnsdruid-burning-blade]

But even with layering you will still be around players… and you will be locked to the same layer as your guild and possibly friends. The only people that disappear are those you did not deem worthy to stay on layer with you, but even they can still end up coming back.

[Ryzix-dragonmaw]

Example 2:

Take Skyrim.

Now have all the NPC’s randomly disappear and hop to different layers all around you on a whim.

Don’t worry though if you keep reloading eventually you’ll see them.

Now try to stay “immersed.”

Sounds terrible.

[Vitolri-moon-guard]

Yep, that might be why people are here complaining about layering

That they effectively demanded themselves.

Writing software to implement in their current servers, is probably cheaper than buying new servers and writing software for it as well.

Not…really. You don’t need to write ‘new software’ for addition servers. Unless I’ve been completely mislead on how servers work. It’s a designation for the data.

Which the right way to do it would be to buy servers and dedicate them for classic rather than to stitch together the stuff they have.

Might need clarification here, but what they have now is all that works. The old server infrastructure isn’t compatible with current systems. So they’re using current ‘clients’ that are patched and dated back. (Still nothing to do with the number of servers mentioned above, to be noted)

I mean we are really literally paying a premium price for a game, we deserve premium quality. (Modern Premium Price for a 15 yo game)

Modern Premium Price that is the same value is the price 15 years ago. Calling it “Modern Premium Price” is misleading, suggesting that the cost has risen, whereas it’s the same. If not cheaper considering you can just buy tokens in retail and have the sub ‘free’.

but they have said this for a couple of things here and there, if thats what you meant, cool, if not , I remember that from i thnk the creator summit, and Ion once or twice too at other times.

They haven’t said it left and right, but here and there, yeah. A couple interviews and such, from what I remember. Basically telling folks that if they want their BFA quality of life changes, then they should just play BFA.

Now have all the NPC’s randomly disappear 3 out of 4 days, because they are on different layers.

Except this isn’t how layering works. There is no random to layering. There is grouping with people from other layers, and relogging. Both of which are intentional actions. If someone ‘randomly’ disappeared to you, it because THEY are leaving the layer by choice. Or that YOU have left that layer by choice.

In other words, to make this matter: Meaningful interaction keeps players on your layer. Adding them lets you keep in contact during other play sessions. If you want to be around someone, you will make it happen. If you’re stipulation to hang around someone is “They must randomly bump into me at least three times before they are worthy of my recognition” then there’s something wrong there.

[Pwnsdruid-burning-blade]

Now try to stay “immersed.”

You care about layering because of PvP… I don’t see how you apply immersion to PvP? NPCs are not going to disappear in WoW because of layering… at least not intentionally.

[Kurwen-stonemaul]

Merges are worse than layering to anyone who is ok with layering.

The only people who prefer merges are people against layering.

I don’t think your solution is better. You do. Agree to disagree. The main reason I don’t is cause you build a community and economy and fracture it with merges. That never happens with layering. The community and economy that is build remains that servers community and economy even after layer collapse.

It’s not like each layer builds their own community and economy. No each server does that.

[Ryzix-dragonmaw]

Sure they do. Log in. All dead in this layer. Relog or get an invite. Oh look all alive.

Nope Quest NPC dead here, can’t do escort… woops relog it’s alive now.

What’s wrong with PvP being immersive exactly? Can’t I both enjoy stun locking someone to death, and not having people twinkle in and out all around me like Tinker Bell on crack?

Going to sap this… NM he layer-hop magic portaled to Azaroth 3.0. Maybe next time…

[Pwnsdruid-burning-blade]

They are applying layer locks for those purposes with things like NPCs as well. As to the immersion of PvP. I just fail to understand it is all. If people pop out via layer hopping to help that person. Isn’t that more or less the goal of PvP? Just as well, there are complicated mechanics put into place that could make it to where a player can’t hop layers like being in a guild. It instead pulls others to there layer more likely. So long as you are PvPing, I would assume you would be happy.

[Studmuffyn-veknilash (Studmuffyn)]

They haven’t said it left and right, but here and there, yeah. A couple interviews and such, from what I remember. Basically telling folks that if they want their BFA quality of life changes, then they should just play BFA.

well they have not said it more simply because no one is really seriously asking for those things, well GBs would be the exception, transmog not so much, and other things, meh, people just post stuff sometimes to get a rise.

Also I would say post Vanilla QoL instead of BfA specifically honestly.