oh yes, you are the unbiased critic who knows everything that ever was and ever will be. /s
shadow of war should be canon
Having THREE capable female characters in 30+ years is not a stellar track record. Also Lara Croft barely deserves to be on that list because she was heavily sexually objectified, her target audience was male. Jolie at least tried to do her justice, and that movie bombed, it bombed because it didn’t objectify her for it’s audience.
I’ve been dealing with the same men saying the same things for almost 40 years, do you think this arguement is new to me? It exists in every single nerd dranchise ever. It would be nice if, instead of getting defensive when the topic of sexism is brought up, men would just listen and not react in their emotions.
Stop being so emotional for a second, and listen.
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So, not only do you try to gatekeep black hairstyles out of the game using bs “melanin” arguments,
buy you also try to gatekeep LGBT representation out of WoW,
and now, you prove that you’re a raging misogynist. GD really does send their trash to the story forums. Get bent.
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I don’t believe you because your words suggest otherwise.
What does that have to do with this discussion? Pray tell.
Also, I still very much stand by that statement. you can headcanon whatever you want. That is hardly gatekeeping. Interesting definitions you choose to run with. I can tell you how a current world ideology doesn’t belong in a medieval themed fantasy game, though.
Out of… the game? What?
Lol, trying to contort my sentiments to your own perceptions hardly equates to what you are saying.
They don’t work on dwarves for reasons I went into, in that thread. Geographically speaking, it makes way more sense to have black hairstyles on humans from areas where it would make sense. Again, interesting use of terms there buddy.
Like Redguards in Elder Scrolls. It makes sense for them to have appropriate black hairstyles, because of where they come from
I can’t facepalm enough at your fake outrage.
How?
Because I believe Galadriel was a far more impressive character in LotR as Tolkien wrote her than a warrior-queen-mary-sue in Rings of Power?
Because I think that characters like Ellen Ripley are much, much better female leads than that utter tripe served to us by modern media, where women are infallible?
Because I think Malfurion is a chatacter worthy of not being killed off next expansion?
You are a very angry, very close minded (imagine an accused person saying such a thing, the shock), highly triggered individual. Get some help.
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They were only examples. Xena warrior princess was a great character before girl-boss-warriors were in fashion.
I’m not going to write a laundry list of good female characters for someone who thinks Rings of Power, warrior-slay-queen Galadriel was a faithful, accurate representation of that character.
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a laundry list of a handful of stong multidimensaional female characters in a 40 year span is not proper representation it’s tokenism.
I don’t think you really understand the depths of the arguments being levied at you instead you’d rather just be an ostrich and bury your head in the sand, instead of listen to others. This was the ssme experience I got from you talking about Rings of Power, you didn’t want to hear the arguments for Galadriel being a strong female character because what you wanted her to be was out of the way. She was a token character for most of this franchise and not an active participant. All of her deeds where offscreen and only refered to in the letters.
Imagine if a character you loved was boiled down to someone characters only ever offhandledly refered to in the text. That’s what this boils down to. You say Galadriel wasn’t a “warrior maiden in the books” she was hinted at being a warrior maiden in the letters but her story was never told in a first person before. she’d only been talked about by other characters.
I think fandom would benefit if you just stepped aside and let these stories be told. Yes, at the end of the day they are not being written for you, but not all fiction is.
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… That experience, that in the actual literature she is one of the very strongest characters in Tolkiens LotR without being a warrior queen, dislikable Mary Sue as portrayed in Rings of Power?
Which I reminded you about, after you made it painfully clear you didn’t actually know what you were talking about?
See, this is the problem. They can’t just be strong female characters, that won’t suffice.
They have to be absolutely dominant in every aspect, especially over male counterparts, and then some - by your metrics
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she can be strong being both. She doesn’t have to adhere to one model of a strong female character. She’s clearly depicted as being both strong with or without a sword… that’s what a multi-dimensional female character is.
I don’t understand why you can’t see that female characters can be both. they don’t need to be pidgeonholed onto tropes like “warrior princess” or demure queen they can just be muti-faceted like real women.
See, i have a lot of thoughts about this and so do women. So when Tolkien wrote LotR in the early 1900’s he wasn’t trying to write feminism into his novels, but he did write female characters to be present in the novels at the urging of his daughter. in the 2000’s when the LotR movies came out, we were riding the wave of “girl power” feminism. This feminism was flawed because to be “strong” you had to be the masculine counter part of men. It created this box for women that to be “strong” they had to be masculine. 3rd wave feminism has since been unpacking that and saying well, no, being “like men” is not a marker of strength in women, and we have new takes on empowered women to reflect that change in ideology.
The metrics by which we define “strong female characters” are contantly shifting and our media reflects those shifts. Eowyn yelling “I am no man” before stabbing the Witch King, in hindsight is super cringe, but it was peak feminism and female empowerment portrayal for it’s time. LotR is always evolving it’s portrayal of women based on Tolkien’s original inclusivity.
If you look at LotR from a perpective on how it’s always treated male characters, it’s always been a portrayal of diverse masculinity. Tolkien’s novels can be analysed as being critical of toxic masculity, having men who are vulnurable and feminine (he wrote these books trying to dodge WW1 and WW2 and he was anti-war propoganda) It would be a disservice to Tolkien himself not to have the same diversity in his female characters.
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No she can’t, because Tolkien never wrote her that way. Here we go again.
Take episode 8. In the literature, she never - and I mean never fell for Saurons tricks. She was one of the very few who was suspect of ‘the bringer of gifts’.
Never told CELEBRIMBOR how to go about making rings.
This is utter nonsense and reflects your personal desires, to the point you will disregard everything to push what you want.
I really enjoy the character of Malfurion. Almost all of his most impressive deeds were done off screen, in mentions here and there in books.
What about him? Where’s his screen time, development and strength? Why is it all being taken from him?
What about Baine Bloodhoof? Son of Cairne, mightiest warrior? Where’s his development and screentime? Why do they leave him to rot?
Why is it only put under a microscope when its a female? Why can’t all characters worthy of development, actually get it?
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I was going to say there were and are plenty of awesome female characters dating back to the early 80s. You listed some of the most well known ones. There are plenty who don’t get mentioned nearly as much
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This will require a deft touch.
This point has some merit, especially given the current zeitgeist, and yet, to quote one of my favorite Death Knights. “All is not lost. Not yet.”
While you were right about male leaders in Legion, we also had Ysera, leader of the Green Dragonflight, die. The female leader of the Nightborne - Elisande - was also slain. And, we also have the edgelord jobbing death of the Army of the Light’s leader, “Light Mother” naaru Xe’ra, after which leadership of the Lightforged Draenei seemed to be split between Turalyon and Fareeya.
It’s less evident in BfA. While you’re right about Rastakhan, Daelin is long dead by the time of BfA, and it seems Jaina’s mother and Ashvane shared leadership of Kul’Tiras. But we overthrow and later kill Ashvane while Katherine steps down.
The covenants were evenly split, with 2 males and 2 females, even with the Primus MIA and Denathrius being a traitor. No one ruled Maldraxxus in his absence; we arrive in the middle of a civil war to determine who’s in charge. The closest Draka gets to ruling Maldraxxus is sharing leadership of the House of the Chosen with Alexander Mograine while we control the Seat of the Primus. We also restore the Primus his rightful rule of Maldraxxus. He officially puts Draka in charge of the House of the Chosen, but he still calls the shots for Maldraxxus.
And while I don’t know about the Centaur clans in Dragonflight, Norzdomu’s not going to die there, and we have leadership of the Black Dragonflight contested between two cool (pun intended) guys; Wrathion and Sabellian.
And Kalecgos and Senegos are still around too, regarding the blue dragons.
So while you have a point about the dearth of male leaders, there’s still some, and we can have inspirational male and female characters.
Precisely. And they were written far better and had much more compelling stories back then.
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Thats where you should have ended that train of thought.
He loathed - I encourage you to read the definition of that word to understand just how much he hated the next word - allegory.
He explicitly stated, numerous times, how much he loathed allegory. You understand what that means?
It was a work to establish a mythos for England. To have its own cultures. Its own worldbuilding.
It was designed to never include anything from our world, especially modern ideologies or politically motivated ideologies.
Its this incessant digging and attempted dissection of something that never existed, to plug your own personal ideologies into something, that is so damaging to works such as that.
Checkmark behaviour is the death of creativity.
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Being a women is not a political ideology or an allegory.
Women and opinions on women have become heavily politicized, and I can understand why you feel the way you do. But I feel like you are also not understanding the core of what I am saying.
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I heard it had a lot to do with the aftermath of WW 1 and he wanted to preserve englands culture through lord of the rings.
The man was a genius regardless and seeing as he saw the horrors of war and what man was capable of doing to one another, it also played a part in his writings.
Correct me if I’m wrong though
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I remember referring Malfurion to my husband as “Legion’s Damsel in Distress”. “Gentleman in Distress” isn’t nearly as funny. Even Malfurion’s dialogue in the dungeon from which we rescue him is so reminiscent of the silent film dramas.
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You mean the 90s when comics/the x-men didnt have to compete for kids attentions with video games/free webcomics like Tapas/Webtoons(some of which easily blow X-men in terms of representation) and probably didn’t have to deal with the ever convoluted nature of the history of comics?
For every Lara Croft there was a dozen princess peaches who’s only goal was to be saved.
The whole “medieval themed fantasy game” argument should have died as of Warcraft 2. You know, you sound like one of those people complaining how the gnomes/goblins should not have been added to Warcraft because steampunk didn’t belong in Warcraft.
Oh please, there is no “making sense” to it. Hairstyles are not tied to some geography/could spread though other means.
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You keep speaking further removing any doubt that you’ve never actually read the books and extent of your knowledge is no more than that of a wiki.
If your soul desires is to see modern views and social issues in your stories than by all means right your own.