Keep getting kicked in gamma dungeons

WoW Classic Cataclysm Classic Discussion
2649

I’m not on any side but my own. My point is that players subjectivity is the sole deciding factor on how groups work. And there is literally nothing Blizzard can do to change that. It’s why things like grouping exists. Want to do gammas and hate random toxic players? Make a group. Want a hardcore power farm group? Make it.

Is it dumb how people use Gearscore? Absolutely. But what do you want Blizzard to do literally hand make the groups? At this point all you’re doing is asking people nicely to not be morons. That’s not really gonna go far. Even if I agree they are morons.

I’m one of the most accommodating people in groups. I have an incredible level of patience, I am always willing to explain fights and wait for people to be ready, and I NEVER vote to kick based on gearscore. There’s a difference between toxic gatekeeping and demanding other people spend their time carrying someone that is not willing to put forth a level of effort that warrants their place. I am absolutely fine to help out new and undergeared players. I do it all the time. But I expect a level of effort in return too. And not gemming and enchanting at all, being lazy with gearing, and not putting in some effort is not only lazy but it’s extremely disrespectful to everyone else and their time and their effort.

Not at all. Blizz has done everything to accommodate players. Welcome to the real world. Welcome to ACTUAL socialization. Where you have to deal with people you don’t like and don’t agree with.

But would be happening for raids. And you wouldn’t be doing normal heroics and getting the gear that’s there, so this is not only a moot point it’s a moronic one too. The behavior didn’t manifest because of gammas, it is in gammas because it already existed. You are literally just seeing content where the entirety of players are together after rewards.

So this part is more a symptom of the situation. And I actually DO agree with you on a VTK delay, and no 30 min deserter debuff (the actual leniency is rather open surprisingly. I have left immediately before and gotten 30m, and I have left after 2 trash pulls and gotten only 10). I just don’t agree with the rest of your statements. But this part yea, I agree.

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2650

Except then I can vote to kick them. So not really. See the wonderful aspect of allowing players to decide their parties. You either get no LFD or you get LFD but players get to decide the kicks. You don’t get to force geared players to carry you because you feel entitled to gear.

I’ve been EXCEEDINGLY clear. It’s very difficult to be clear with someone that routinely lies, deflects, changes the subject, insults, and just disregards wholesale entire information. You have been nothing but a disingenuous rat for the entirety of the conversation.

This is half correct. You can queue for gammas once the system decides you have “210” ilvl regardless of if that is equipped (spoiler alert I queued into gamma with 190 ilvl equipped). ilvl 210 is the BARE MINIMUM for doing gammas, and in my professional opinion (and yes I am better at this game than you deal with it) it is just that, a bare minimum. It is the literal starting point. And if you aren’t going to put more than the bare minimum into your gammas you’re going to get booted.

Yes gammas are the best place to get gear overall. They are also MUCH harder than normal heroics or any other 5 man content. Yes that difficulty matters regardless of what you personally believe.

You don’t expect to walk into raid wearing a clown suit with no gems or enchants, why do you think you get to for gammas? Gammas didn’t replace ANY OTHER content in the LFD. All those other queues exist too. Want the big boi rewards and loot? Do a big boi job.

My paladin was 5k gearscore in less than 16 hours. I was queueing for gammas with him the SAME DAY I hit 80 at 4500 gearscore. My time was spent just fine. In two real time days I was over 5k gearscore. You’re just bad at the game.

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2651

To elaborate on my paladin’s journey:

Boosted right to 80, immediately replaced the garbage greens with crafted cobalt gear. Queued for normal ToC and FoS, petitioned my guild for crusader orbs and runed orbs, bought 2 tank rings off the AH for a total of 65g, bought a tank cloak for 150g. Enchanted the cloak with defense.

Once the orbs were given to me, used my spare titansteel to make 245 chest, bracers and 232 belt. Gemmed them with TBC green gems while I saved up gold. Enchanted what felt reasonable.

After several runs of normal ICC dungeons, bought 232 tier shoulders and gloves. Had 264 boots made with mats from my main (saronite from scourgestones). Used my keeper’s stones to get honor for my shoulder enchant.

Started target farming dungeons for specific drops. normal ToC for Black heart, which I lost the roll on twice to the dps, and the shield in Halls of Reflection which never dropped.

Finished leveling engineering, made my goggles while doing it for the meta gem.

Did 25m and 10m voa with my guild, got 264 tier gloves for tanking. Gemmed and enchanted those with my first epic gems.

Transitioned to heroic ICC dungeons. At this point every piece of gear i have is epic except my green trinket, blue cloak, and my green shield. Got a 232 piece here too.

At this point I felt confident enough to do gammas with a guildie, had the guildie heal while I tanked. Got another trinket, and farmed out stones and emblems. Bought 245 neck and ring, guildie bought me the boe scourgestone ring, and I got the sidereal shield.

Tanked a normal 10m TOGC got another trinket and some more badges, got a trophy as well and got 245 helm.

2652

Isn’t this just simply a scenario of people taking the path of least resistance?

You could take a person with the bare minimum requirements and be successful, but if you had the opportunity to make the run smoother/faster/more efficient, then why not (this isn’t my personal opinion just a statement)? Time is finite, anecdotally many folks I speak to are just doing this as a daily Maintenace and just want to get it done so focus can be put into more important things (especially considering how late into the expansion we are).

2653

That’s exactly what it is. There’s a lot of varying opinions here. You have some people (Basically just the OP no one else, everyone else hijacked this thread) that feel incensed because from their perspective they are reasonably geared for the content, want to get some upgrades, and feel ready to do the content but get gatekept from it by arbitrary third party addons. I can empathize with that. It’s real dumb. I was gatekept heavily from content when I was first coming back in Ulduar era after quitting in early TBC classic. It sucked. Constantly getting “Gearscore?” even for NORMAL DUNGEON groups was frustrating. Which makes it more absurd that people keep telling me this would “never happen” in normal heroics. I guess my reality is just a side of fries only I get to have.

You have the people that are just general jerks that want to antagonize the people upset and flex their forum warrior skills. they died out fast early on. Bragging about how much they kick others.

You have the NoChanges crowd that are just lying and using this thread to piggyback off the discussion to push their hatred of Classic on others.

You have the general people who have varying levels of debate on the situation.

You have the people that want to be carried in groups at the expense of others. I whole heartedly believe these are retail players that either didn’t actually play original wrath, or they did but they did so little in the game their recollection is flawed. These people seem to have the mindset that catchup content in wrath means they deserve to walk in and get free gear. That’s retail not Classic. They need to go back there.

There’s a lot of legitimate criticism, some nuanced discussion, some spirited debate, a few half baked suggestions or comments, and a LOT of forum warrior trolling.

But at the end of the day you are right. it’s just player behavior and human nature. No one wants to make content harder than it needs to be. The 6k gearscore people that clear ICC weekly don’t want to deal with wipes in their daily dungeon. And some of them are going to pre-emptively look to resolve that. It’s not great, but it’s how people operate. Either adapt or fail.

2 Likes
2654

You can keep linking the OG patch notes all you want, it doesn’t matter jack cause the 3 badges aren’t there.

Look at what you’re spamming at me.

It says two. You’ve spammed two at me 700 times.

The 3 badges from the stupid bag and now a quest in phase 4 are entirely a classic only concept.

Repeating OG patch notes that do NOT INCLUDE THE THING YOU’RE SAYING IT INCLUDES is futile.

Good bloody lord.

2655

No, its not.

Phase 1 didnt have this, phase 2 did and lasted longer than phase 2 in OG. What did phase 2 have that you needed to buy from the vendor? Nothing if you were raiding.

Even now if you do everything its 1 montth to get your 4pc. The 3 extra emblems are clearly to get people into titan protocol dungeons. If you get stuff from VoA its even less. ICC isnt going to last just 2 months and then cata is going to happen.

Just report them, should have been reported long ago for calling people idiots and morons. They are a troll, clearly. Its not hard to understand that the 3 extra emblems are an inventive to do titan protocol. Why else would people run them? Why would people that raided in phase 1 do alphas in phase 2 if they already have the gear? The gear isnt the inventive to run them, its the extra badges. And realistically those badges werent needed in phase 2. You got your helm and chest from raiding.

Oh and another thing that goes against the whole “its because the phases are shorter” they could have just reduced the cost of items. They needed an incentive to run titan protocol dungeons. I havent ran a single one and I have been in ICC.

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2656

Gammas aren’t big boy loot :stuck_out_tongue:

It’s pre raid loot and blizzard chose to make spamming them the optimal way to get to actual big boy loot, so once again if you don’t like people joining gammas as soon as they can take it up with blizzard.

If you don’t understand why the time you spent getting from 4kish to 4.5kish GS not in gammas was time wasted I don’t know what to tell you.

But sorry if you are incapable of doing gammas, which aren’t that hard gear check wise, at ilvl 210 it just means you are failing at mechanics.

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2657

Then you don’t use RDF, you go with guildies or people you know are “pumpers”

Using RDF to get random teammates and then complaining about your random teammates is just… hilarious. Unless someone is afk/leeching/not even showing up you take what you can get.

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2658

I take 4 different 6k+ tanks into daily FoS every day. I’ve seen some serious mouth breathing, and the only kick ive seen is a guy who was still afk when we got to Brohnjam.

I can only imagine what you’d need to be doing to get kicked constantly.

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2659

Complaining about them kicking you is complaining about your teammates given by rdf. Just saying.

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2660

Oh, no, they are completely innocent. Trust.

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2661

Saying things like “don’t use RDF” isn’t an active solution.

  1. Blizzard allows groups to self-regulate themselves based upon a multitude of factors- gear/persons attitude/engagement.
  2. WOTLK servers aren’t as active as the original game, so there’s a “time in” component to doing dungeons (people have finite time)
  3. This scenario is acceptable per the TOS and social contract (if I’m wrong then someone corrrect me here)
  4. Blizzard has a small fail-safe build into kick initiations to limit people who use the system too often

When looking at scenarios like this, extreme situations are always going to happen (like the OP getting kicked by groups that have overly aggressive gear needs). With that being said, it seems like most people in this thread are accommodating to a multitude of gear, and just go off engagement. The exception shouldn’t be the rule when making decisions on how a process works.

Think about the alternative to the current scenario (which seems to be catered to accommodating the largest number of players). What would that look like?

  1. Making it so you can’t kick people? Then that could destabilize a group and cause multiple other players to not enjoy the game
    2.Give more kick protection to a person getting kicked? That could cause the opposite extreme (ie where a small group of people hold a group hostage knowing it fits my above points).
    3.Making a different system to track a person’s minimum ability to get into a dungeon (things like adding gems/ enchants or docking pvp gears gearscore)? This could cause a plethora of issues like removing a decent portion of newer/less geared alts from doing harder contentt, increase wait times, or could cause people to quit due to brick walling in the initial gearing process.

With anything in life, you are going to have inequity, it’s a “deal with it” situation.

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2662

That doesn’t mean inequity shouldn’t be pointed out.

For example what about just adding a kick limit per day, that would make it an actual decision to kick on a real reason or just because you are whiny about GS.

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2663

The more you kick the less you can kick again. There is already a protection ingame. If you keep getting kicked that’s often something you’re doing wrong and done by multiple different groups.

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2664

So it’s a number that blizzard can easily tweak if people are abusing it.

2665

Which as far as I know you can’t. Lot of people are probably only doing their daily at best anyway. And many people do their dailies with less geared people. So if you keep getting kicked by multiple groups you’re doing something wrong.

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2666

And in all fairness people who just want to do the daily are queuing for FoS.

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2667

The reason why people keep kicking any low geared person in sight is, mostly when the low geared person is performing below average expectations. That lead to negative perspective about them.
Things got even worse when BZ sold level 80 boost, leading to the new 80 jumping into gamma.
I mentioned that the most reasonable workaround is to widen the gap between beta and gamma requirements (so new 80’s have to spend more time on regular heroic/beta and know what to do with additional mechanisms before jumping into gamma, this may increase their performance)

  • Raised gamma requirement to 225 ilvl
  • Increased loot rate in gamma to 232 ilvl (to match ICC dungeons, much easier than gamma)
  • Remove ICC dungeons in regular heroic queue (many new boosted player feedback about it that they queued for regular heroic but incidentally being thrown into ICC dungs, that overwhelmed for them)
  • Making ability to initiate a vote kick has the same increasing timer with deserter debuff (5 - 10 - 30 - 60 mins for each time happen for example). So if someone 's consecutively kicked, it should be his own issue.
2668

Havent been kicked once, but if you are constantly kicking people, then something is wrong with you. You should not be kicking people that often just for their gear or drinking when they need mana, or some other toxic nonsense trying to pawn it off on OTHER people doing something wrong.

What you are basically saying is if you are getting robbed all the time, you must be doing something wrong then. Thats not how it works.

1 Like