Yes my calculated “While if you compare gamma and beta:
Adds/Boss Health increased about 60~120%” is not correct
Def it’s Adds/Boss Health increased about 40~85% (which most increased in DTK and Gundrak).
So as your calculation, the minimum fight is not longer, but some will (OK, AN, DTK and GUN), which the health increased more than 43%.
But not only it, but others issue too. As a healer, i did see more emergency situations when my group have more lower gear. And ofcourse i must use CDs to keep group alive. But when the fight 's longer, things happen more frequently and i don’t have CDs to save them again. That 's what make different. That 's situation i faced as a 5.4k Hpal, without mana issue, and other ppl in group could carry so in mostly situation it didn’t lead to a wipe. But if i only have 210 ilvl gear, things become worse , don’t have enough haste, mana issue and more. The tank will face the same issues
Yea but those are issues you also face in beta too. And as I stated tanks and healers are the lynchpins of groups so their gear is the important part. Which is why optimization is so important.
I will say that of the fringe things brought up in this thread the only one I have encountered at least once in my decade or so playing WoW is this one.
You aren’t too far off in your statements here, the tank/healer would just ask to be kicked and refuse to begin the dungeon or leave on their own. It is my own anecdotal memory so take it as you would like, but it is something I have experienced at least once in my memory.
Still a massive fringe case though.
Sure, but we used to do beta World tour with 4.2k gs group.
And now, some fight could become impossible even with higher ilvl overall and everyone follow mechanics (if you read my comment about OK gamma run). So, it def couldn’t be equal difficulty.
But like what’s the upside and why would they do it? That doesn’t make any amount of sense. If you’re going to troll a group you want to waste as much people’s time as long as possible. This feels like just a singular random occurrence rather than something the system is designed to stop.
There is no way a 4200 GS competent group is having issues on gammas outside TOC with confessor, or no dispel for the one shot hammer from Eadric.
I think you are conflating what a competent group did in a previous scenario with what a less than such group can do now.
This was back when being kicked did not give a debuff timer but leaving willfully did. The goal was to circumvent the 30min debuff for leaving.
Just like the GS kicking complaints this is also an entirely uncommon situation, especially now with the debuff being given on kick, but it was at least known to be happening in a very limited sense with the old RDF system.
I honestly don’t think this current system was supposed to stop anything like this as it is just so rare an occurrence I doubt it was brought into consideration.
Of course we weren’t on our best, but all did follow mechanic. No one did fatal mistake, so we didn’t do any vote kick. What else could i do?
Yeah it is dumb. That’s why I suggested first time should have no debuff and then incremental for each kick you received. From my experience it’s rare to kick anyone out so if you are getting the debuff from getting kicked, you might be doing something wrong.
to be honest, if we do a comparison between beta and gamma, it should be more specific to each dungs.
About on par, only UK and UP are.
COS, HOL, HOS, VH, NEX, OCU have the a bit more difficulty, and take more time (significally much more for COS, HOL, HOS)
AN, OK, Gun, DTK 're surely harder. While TOC is somehow undoable for 220 ilvl group.
And, calculation is only a theory, as you could see COS gamma nowaday (even with higher gear average) always get closer timer to kill the 4th boss. We used to have more than 5 mins when doing beta with lower gear.
another, just for example.
When doing HOL/HOS, in beta, if someone missed an interrupt on an add, its okay. But now in gamma, it more often lead to a wipe, forged lightning is pretty more deadly.
lol I am literally crit proof when I queue for regular heroics. I think some of you folks dont know a whole lot about gear levels but then, most seem to have their stuff bought via GDKP so not much to expect
Yeah, 4355 GS fire mage here, fully enchanted etc. Just got removed from a random gamma literally 10 seconds after joining. Hit my Arcane Brilliance and then poof gone, 30 min debuff. It’s amazing how much more toxic WotLK is than retail.
But again for what purpose?
GS kicking is not uncommon I can promise that. To the degree of which cases are and are not warranted however is anyone’s guess. Because the thing is, people would never do pug groups for low geared players before LFD. And that mindset has carried over. It will take time for that to stop being the standard behavior.
This is a fatal mistake. There’s always a reason. I feel like analyzing the situation wasn’t in your mindset at the time. But there are certainly things to be done. For instance as a DK I try and keep a high uptime on DnD even on single target, I can have my pet break me out of webs too, people need to stack together to make it easier for melee to cleave webs.
I feel like TOC gammas are overtuned even for 6k gearscore folks. Some of those fights are utterly insane.
Sounds like this is the problem, not the gamma. Whirl is deadly on just about any difficulty.
You can’t expect everyone to do perfectly every second.
In beta, you could resolve it if it 's minor. In beta, i barely got forked lightning down. While in gamma, a doubled forked lightning 's usually leading to a wipe.
Im talking about forked lightning but not whirl
And again, for about in beta, you have the time to solve it at least, while in gamma, you 're dead too quick to do smt
we did paltress with 0 interrupt done group which average of about 5.4k (Prot Pal, Hpal, 2 Warlock and a Hunter)
I barely got wiped on last boss, so its not the issue
Forked Lightning is a cone, if this is wiping your group your tank either isn’t facing the mobs away or the dps are morons. You don’t have to get whirl immediately, but you SHOULD be getting it within the first tick. If you’re not saving an interrupt for whirl within the first tick that’s entirely a you problem. I’m not going to entertain this idea it’s hard to hit a single button at a specified time. That’s ridiculous.
Then you got incredibly lucky, because I’ve had the healer get 2 shot during the fear as a 5800 gearscore player.
To not have to run a dungeon they don’t want to run. The example I gave from memory was of a tank in Occulus who, apparently, REALLY didn’t want to do it. So they threw a tantrum and did the aforementioned “kick me” to avoid a timer and avoid having to do Occulus.
I agree it can/does happen, but I still remain skeptical of the rate at which it occurs.
Agree, relearning or adapting takes time.
Its not what i mentioned. Something casted by small adds in HOS. It cast from ranged, directly to healer and caster but not the tank. Ah, it 's lightning bolt
In beta i never got down by it, so i don’t care much about positioning.
But in gamma at least 3 times got wipe by it.
Did it count as mechanic skipped, lol?
About whirl, in beta, numerous times the dps just ran away from it but not interrupt, and i still be able to save them, while it couldn’t go that way in gamma as they die too quick
Did it count as mechanic skipped too?
So, in beta we were be able to skip many minor mechanics, while it couldn’t in gamma (or you need to be very good geared)
It’s so funny throughout this 2000+ comment thread we’ve seen people say kicks never happen right at the start, people don’t kick if you put effort into your character ie. Gemming/enchanting/flasking, people don’t care if you show up “undergeared” as long as your dps is respectable.
Surprise, I was right all along, people look at GS and kick if they deem it below their standards. Nobody inspects. And anyone who says they do is full of it.
This isn’t a thing. It really isn’t.