I’m just saying that gear equality was just not as necessary to win fights back then either, so it wasn’t entirely necessary to do arena in order to compete with those players outside of arena.
If we had such a system today with how much more gear matters the casual player base would be entirely wiped out (which is kind of what happened in Shadowlands).
And somehow Abomb has derailed and morphed this thread with disconnected logic when its core subject matter is 10v10. Suddenly it becomes this sliding doors conversation about would Wow have been better if it never introduced Arena and stayed focus on larger scale or open combat - without really having an answer for why every MMO that is premised on this has failed miserably retention wise, and why this could have been a better alternative??
I’m thinking everything from ESO, New World, Gloria Victis, Albion Online, Lost Oasis. There’s a tonne of moving parts to answer this - because a lot of these games are bereft of PVe content to aid retention, but I don’t think it’s healthy to take pot shots at Arena randomly, in the context of a broader 10v10 conversation. Start a different thread for your Arena complaints, but let people frustrated if RBGs leave, be frustrated and if you want to discuss with them why - do so. But if you hate Arena, hate on it separately.
You wanted to talk about RBGs. You wanted to protect RBGs. Well don’t get mad at me, get mad at Arena for ruining RBGs and now they are going away.
Again I’ve competed in RBGs and have enjoyed them in various expansions. However Arena destroyed them and objective based PvP. Arena hurt the majority of PvPers in this game.
You are missing the point. I’ve never watched them play Arena because no one cares about Arena. It’s not a watchable product and that’s why only 8k people at best tune into the AWC.
Over 350,000 people watched the dueling Mak’Gora tournament because it was the best PvP event in many years. It was exciting! It’s more entertaining! Viewers could follow and enjoy the matches!
Most PvPers hate Arena. Most PvE players who decide to PvP aren’t doing Arena either they are gonna que for a BG or do WPvP. Arena is a failed mode that the majority of players don’t care about. Arena destroyed RBGs and now they are going away. Arena hurt PvP in this game.
The New 8v8 mode will get people excited to play. It will interest PvPers and get PvE players to try it. This is what PvP participation needs.
Yah leave the 10v10 mode. It’s not gonna matter anyways. It’s still going to collapse when everybody dumps 10v10 for Blitz anyways. Your Que times are going to be so high that the mode won’t be feasible anyways. It’ll just die organically.
My friend, I don’t RBG beyond filling a need if someone on Bnet whispers. And 50% of the time it’s at that weird 2100 area where an RMT team hits us once to avoid craven and leaves, and then I go back to reading a book until my SS queue pops.
Whether it dies or not is in the hands of communities and individuals who still like it, but I haven’t pushed since MOP when cheating was insane, and as a game mode, player agency and skill expression is not to my personal taste.
I am also not in this weird sadism of celebrating its downfall. There are some very toxic people in those communities, but also genuinely nice mum and dad style folk who are not rating sensitive, don’t care about pushing, and just like to play together in a bigger format than 3s that is rated.
which irregardless, doesn’t answer or justify why Abomb is unnecessarily hostile and aggressive to Arena in a thread about rated battlegrounds.
@blizzard can we get some clarification on 10v10 battlegrounds being removed from the game in the war within expansion as the recent wowcast was not very clear.
As the GM of PvP guild (and officer of another) most of our players are here to do rated RBG’s and arena. We want to organise premade groups as a team going forward in the war within
I have discussed quiet a bit with my members over the past 12 months on the state of PvP play with the following themes consistently coming up.
Solo shuffle should only be a queue mode to enter solo into proper arena queues - would bring more players to arena and get them interested in forming up proper 2v2 or 3v3 groups.
Solo Blitz is a gimmick mode of pvp - ie we can’t form solid teams and just feels like a poor mode of random bg’s - get slapped into a random team.
PvP has been very unbalanced for the dragon flight expansion rated RBG’s (and arena) - Minimal class tuning addressing the core of the issue - feels like developers are not listening or responding to any feedback from the community.
Many of our guild members are waiting to see if you will fix rated RBG’s, arena and class tuning in season 4 or the war within to decide if they will renew subscriptions and come back to play. They don’t want to play solo shuffles or solo/duo blitz.
Shuffle / Blitz queues are way to long as nobody wants to heal
Instead of solo shuffle / Battleground Blitz - have you considered allowing solo queues into rated RBG’s and 2v2 / 3v3 arena? That is instead of a different game mode you just allow people to queue solo and generate a team to be pushed into the standard 2v2,3v3,10v10 queues? If people want to push higher rating they can form up a premade group?
Why would they remove 10v10 RBGs for Blitz why not have both? Thats like removing arena and making everyone only play solo shuffle. WTF Blizz
I think it’s crazy/bad to remove traditional 10v10 RBGs, and I don’t even play them. But I can understand why a group of friends would want to.
Also, I wish blizz had simply done true SOLO queue 10v10 RBGs, with already established rules, rather than 8v8 with different rules. For those of us who play very casually and do not have a reliable group of friends for traditional RBGs.
I love how in the interview he talks about battlegrounds being his favorite mode for the collaboration and strategy that goes into it, and then promotes BG Blitz, the mode that removes all of that.
Call me crazy, but I like to play RBGs with my friends. We do it every weekend and it’s a fun time with people, and you get to watch your group improve and climb. You can’t replace that with the watered down SS RBGs. Having that get removed will literally get me to unsub.
People talk about RBGs being toxic, but you know what you can do if you run into a toxic player in your group? You can kick them and find someone who isn’t. In BG blitz? You’re gonna get the SS players who have no self awareness and pitch a fit because they died.
Didn’t you love that MW monk buff they did a month or so ago despite teams already triple stacking MW monks?
How about: no?
I mean, you are actually calling for solo queue players to serve as fodder to full ten man premades and if they want rewards… well, they have to play the way you want them to play.
Here is the reality you need to face.
Players should never be forced to play a format that they don’t want to participate in just to satisfy a part of the player base that feels that they should be forced into that format.
Well, you aren’t very good on your own if you aren’t able to use strategy and collaboration in Battleground Blitz. Some people are able to do this on their own with other people not on voice with themselves simply by just being aware and understanding win conditions without being ordered around by a BG leader.
One of the big difference between the two modes is that your own personal awareness and understanding of strategy and win conditions becomes more important.
I think it’s crazy/bad to remove traditional 10v10 RBGs, and I don’t even play them. But I can understand why a group of friends would want to.
Also, I wish blizz had simply done true SOLO queue 10v10 RBGs, with already established rules, rather than 8v8 with different rules. For those of us who play very casually and do not have a reliable group of friends for traditional RBGs.
Unfortunately, true solo queue 10v10 would likely have been disastrous. Only because random team comps would often put one team at a disadvantage, and guarding base nodes would become an issue as not many people enjoy having that responsibility. So I admire the rule changes to the game modes to let players be a little more free and allow some room for error.
I personally am fine if 10v10 goes away as long as I can still make an 8v8 premade for RBGs.
Gonna point out real quick that in NA there are only 30k characters, not unique characters, on the entire RBG ladder.
Meanwhile 2s is 100k, 3s is 70k, and SS is 257k.
The mode is dead and I’d guess more than half of that 30k won’t be there when solo queue exists.
I doubt they outright remove it until 12.0, but if they do remove it in 11.0, nothing of value was lost.
I doubt they are going to remove RBGs completely, but switching to 8v8 is not a terrible idea.
Honestly, I think 8v8 would be a game changer for creating RBG groups.
The new mode will include the flag buff change they put in a while ago.
You won’t have to spend hours looking for tank so your group can compete on 2 of the 8 maps.
If you have 10 friends you regularly run RBGs with that show up at a scheduled time and queue up together, that’s great.
Target audience for this change would be “most players”, and that is not the normal experience for most players looking to play RBGs.
The normal experience is crappy LFG, waiting for invite, waiting again for team to fill, then watching it crumble if you lose a match.
It’s not great.
They aren’t. That is confirmed.
As mentioned above, the most likely interpretation for what Ion said is that all rated formats, both full preform RBGs and soloQ RBGs were going to follow the 8v8 format.
That is still going to upset a lot of current 10v10 RBGers, however. I imagine with enough feedback the 10v10ers might be able to convince them to leave their format as is. But, 100% preform RBGs are NOT getting removed.
Don’t really care much about RBG but they shouldnt remove it to make way for blitz, if RBGs numbers drastically decrease cause of blitz then it is what it is. Being a casual player going into yolo groups(its mainly the only group that accepts you) is tough cause you’re just fresh meat for all the boys on coms, and i’m not even gonna talk about how toxic some people are when you do get into a group that requires discord.
In the end if you’re not familar with certain people they just leave on first loss. As a casual player i enjoy blitz mainly because i feel useful just by knowing my rotation and abilities so if i can hit 1800 rating with that i’m excited for it to come in TWW
good riddance maybe now i can actually play rbgs instead og wasting 3 hrs of tanks dropping qs over n over . lets face it the only ppl saying #saverbgs are the ppl with communities and guilds dedicated to 10 v10s already . so ofc those ppl want it to stay . Sure its nice having plenty of ppl top shift through . For those of us who dont want to spend 5 hrs forming groups to play yolos this will be nice .
That makes me think the Rated BG LFG will be Healers looking for Duo partners.