Can’t discount the perceived wrong doing aspect either. Some players will have some kind of perception, you did them wrong, even if you didn’t.
The concept relies too hard on Players being able to remotely remove themselves from the emotional attachment of pixels.
It’s all subjective.
People don’t care about the game because gearing has become irrelevant which has nothing to do with the community. That has to do with systems being implemented that probably shouldn’t have been but I see they are fixing some of those issues. Sure this game is a waste of time just like all games and forms of entertainment. Its what everyone decides to waste their time on doing.
If I gave you a positive review then that would defeat your point entirely. Sure you will get people to downvote you for things but even people that want to downvote all the time will eventually get tired of voting and stop using the system.
how does the system kick you. players have to kick you. the system should never kick you because of excessive downvotes.
Well that’s your opinion and I am not going to go on the defensive to change it. I do think for myself and if you think I don’t then that’s your opinion but doesn’t make it fact.
Only allowing upvotes and positive messages doesn’t help anyone. if someone doesn’t like that you are a gnome for example then that is their decision but silencing that does create a herd mentality. I know you don’t like those. If you want to base who you play with entirely on a system like this then that is your choice but I wouldn’t.
This is true that most people only chime in with negative comments but there are some like myself that would give positive comments as well. Not everything is doom and gloom.
if someone facepulls something and gets kicked, that player kicked can downvote his entire raid if he wants to but that entire raid can also downvote him as well so as far as downvotes are concerned I think we have to look at feedback and decide for ourselves whether that feedback was warranted or not.
But you did not give a solution to my posed problem at all, which is, if the vast majority of reviewers only leave a negative review (because as we established, people who are content are less likely to comment at all), then you have a skewed representation of a player. There is no mention of the 45 times he ran that raid and did not facepull anything even once. We only get to see that one time, he did. Without any positive review to balance that, the natural assumption is that this player is a bad player, when that is objectively unfounded.
Sorry to double post, I’m mobile and being lazy — but this is not the point. I love leaving nice notes for people. I am the customer who takes home surveys and fills them out with all 5s or 10s (whatever is highest) and leaves an individualized compliment for my server or whatever employee helped me that day.
But that makes us the exceptions to human rule, and you and I cannot alone combat the overall majority’s habit of only speaking up when they are angry about a thing.
It doesn’t, the players that voted to kick WILL. And the fact that’s where you went, shows you really can’t see how players will minipulate the system and that’s why it’s flawed.
You think everyone is going to do the right thing. You should never be able to “dislike” someone for being a bad player, only for being a Player with poor attitudes and toxic behavior. I can deal with bad players, I can’t deal with Douche Bags and Verbally Abusive Windbags.
Gamer’s in general are pretty typical of any huge social gathering-- Petty, resentful, and fundamentally vindictive when they know they have power to wield over you.
So with that, gonna end this here. If Blizzard were ever to implement a system like this, I’d quit. That would be the single thing that would make me quit this game and not look back.
It’s the one of my top three reasons I won’t play FF-- any kind of “Karma” system gets abused.
That is why there are 2 catagories. Social and Gameplay. If they are a good player but are a terrible person then wouldn’t someone being honest in their review reflect that. Can people be dishonest with their answer? Sure but doesn’t mean all will. Can you honestly say that society has an accurate assessment of you as an individual? Most of the time the answer is no because we as human beings don’t show everyone all our positives and negatives. The community perception is almost always inaccurate. That is just the nature of the beast.
For the record, those that haven’t bothered reading my post in its entirety:
TL;DR: Blizzard suggested a Karma system and I gave my feedback. There is nothing more to it then that. Do I think this system would be used properly? Probably not but they wanted ideas so I am throwing it out there. I hold no illusion that I am correct or in this matter as this deals with knowing the community and everyone in it which I don’t. I just have a general idea. How this system is used or abused isn’t up to me entirely. I can only give my feedback and think for myself. I am not going to tell everyone here how to think. I see people think its a bad idea. Sure it can be if its not done right. What the right way to do it is subjective and all I can say is I think my idea has merit even if others think otherwise.
Which is exactly why everyone is saying this system would be bad. It would legitimize an already faulty opinion and give it unwarranted credibility.
No… no they didn’t… Ion said it is something they talk about but aren’t sure how to implement one that wouldn’t be abused. That is what they said.
Become a yelper! You can get free food and stuff by yelping the loudest. Embrace the Chinese Social Credit Movement!
I know the majority wont do the right thing. I am not delusional.
True but like Ion stated in a Q&A, “there is a social contract you sign when you play with other players.” It doesn’t just apply to you but everyone around you. If you do manual group up content then this would apply but shouldn’t effect the very non-verbal LFD or LFR groups.
Throwing out an idea is called making a suggestion. You are thinking that I am saying they have confirmed future content which they haven’t.
If you think about it, players already have control over your fun in the game. If you group up for a raid higher that LFR or do any Mythic dungeons then you know this already. If you cant be a good person there is always LFR and LFD.
And it’s always been a burden. If you’d pug as much as i do, you’d know it for sure, stuff gets done faster when you’re mean to everyone and demand people do mechs or you boot them mid encounter(go ahead and try, you’ll end up 1shooting all raid bosses) but imagine now everyone shares that burden and if you come across a group/guild or whatever may, are not “nice” persons and for any reason they decided to ruin your day. Do you legit think they’ll give a Draenei’s horn and plain abuse a karma system against you?
Again, this is for someone who majorly runs PuG and M+. You can bet your account the lead of a key/premade bg/guild/friends/group in general will annihilate your karma just so you never ever get to group up with anyone, for the sole reason you screwed up a mechanic.
Then again, if you don’t actually do group content, you can’t really experience any of this, in that case, why even bother with a system you’ll never see at work?
See this is how I know you really are not a well rounded in game. These kinds of behavior happen in Every Aspect of the game. From LFR to Guilds Groups.
I’ve been in every aspect of this game except for Arena. From LFR, to Guild PvP, to Guild Raid Teams, to LFD and on to LFG-- BG’s and even Rated BG’s at one time.
It happens in every aspect. Not just the “Non-Verbal”.
The #1 problem right here, and the reason arbitrary metrics like ilvl/r.io are the lesser of two evils. RIO cannot get its feathers in a ruffle over your talent choice and lower your score even though you completed the key on time. Players can, and will.
The person that downvotes you only has the power to do that. It is up to the next player that groups up with you whether to take that into consideration or to blow it off as trolling.
And how would they even know that? Tell me how they will be able to experience the context in which the vote was given at the moment and judge for THEMSELVES if it’s credible or not? Are you going to build up a case of investigation every time you gonna add someone to your raid group?
Have you ever pugged before?
The funny thing is most complaints stem from the ability to downvote but what if that was removed and you can only upvote, leave a comment, or pass?
Yes I have pugged many times since Vanilla. I am not a stranger to this. I see what point you are trying to make and would ask if you would really want to pug with someone that only takes your score into account? Do you not know anyone or have any ingame friends to run with? Even someone on your own server?
The problem with most of these arguments is that there is an assumption there is absolutely no pre-knowledge of a person before implementing. You know your server community and they probably already know you by now if you been there for over a year.
I still don’t think having individualized comments is a good idea, but at least that would stop most of my concerns about downvote trolling, yeah.
So just off the top of my head, I think then the biggest problem would just be players who abuse the system to get massive scores, or people with low scores (new character/player, less group experience, or just run of luck having everyone pass all the time) being gated from content. How do we tell the difference between someone whose score is low because they are bad vs. someone whose score is low because they just got all apathetic group members for the last 6 weeks? And so, thus, what would be the point of such a system at all in comparison with preexisting systems …
Then you have what is already currently in place. A system that measures whether or not the content was successful, and not whether or not someone arbitrarily doesn’t like you for X emotional reason.
Because we have currently, achievements, leaderboards, item level and raider.io all of which only tell you that you did the content exactly like an upvote would.
There’s no need to fix what isn’t broken.
The problem with society today is that they don’t want to hear they are wrong or possibly wrong in any way. It hurts their feelings. Maybe some feelings need to be hurt in order to strengthen you as a person later in life so you can deal with the world.
Well, then a bunch of us are here to say you’re wrong.
That was actually… very funny!
Illuminating