I never said all “feedback” would be lies. I simply said the karma systems are stupid and they get abused a lot. Also, where is your feedback statement coming from? Right now we are talking about you could call that feedback. How would a karma system affect what we are doing right now other than be an avenue for abuse later on?
Your last two sentences just support my argument. Yes people need to stop being so weak, thank you. Now proceed with the forum discussion.
If you want a social rating system move to China and play there… /drop mic
Jackie Chan… /drop mic
This system is always abused by the mob, always, always, always.
Heck, i’ve met people in other games that usually just leveled up characters from scratch just to negative bomb people they didn’t like, and it was freaking common thing to do.
Whenever you give the player control over other player’s experience, you’re going to run into a witch hunt effect, regardless of the process or whatever you do to prevent it. Just look what happened to Master Loot thingy, why do you think it was removed(something i do not agree with)?
Yeah, no. That’ll be a big yikes from me.
EDIT: I just noticed you referenced a streamer, no wonder why you came up with such a horrible idea to implement in WoW.
How do you prevent gaming of the system… IE I’m a streamer and I’ll put you into a lottery draw for this super kewl mouse and keyboard that I got free from a sponsor if you all up vote me and give me a positive comment?
On paper, karma systems sound wonderful, just like many other ideas but you’re giving the power to trolls and pseudo-intellectuals. As nasty as people on video game forums get and as much as too many like to intellectually spar with others, it just winds up like it does on reddit, maybe not to that extent as on reddit, you can downvote all you want. You’ll see 2 people going back/forth arguing and downvoting each other’s last comments.
how about a vote by someone lasts 3 months then falls off so it is not a permanent stain on the character unless they revote. The system would be hard to avoid or forget since it would popup after a final boss kill.
a karma system should never have rewards tied to it. the social aspect of it is what matters.
If you type in chat that you are a new tank and are still learning or even macro it so you can hit it when entering a group can lead to more understanding from your group.
that kid may gain likes from people that don’t mind that kind of behavior but will gain dislikes from those who actually do.
Just like the forums, the upvote and downvote system will be up for interpretation. This is why it should not automate whether someone is qualified or not to que for content.
And this is where I stopped reading your comments.
There is no one problem with society “today” that was not equally pervasive at every other moment in history. The Ancient Greeks complained about “kids these days” and their absent work ethic and their failing moral values. Stop trying to solve perceived societal problems through video game mechanics.
Also, no to a karma system, for the same reasons everyone else gave. Too easy to abuse, entirely self-defeatist, let’s stick with the closest we can get to objective scoring systems like ilvl/r.io and leave people’s inherently-flawed personal opinions out of it.
Read number 3 on my list.
If you think about it, players already have control over your fun in the game. If you group up for a raid higher that LFR or do any Mythic dungeons then you know this already. If you cant be a good person there is always LFR and LFD.
what would be the advantage of that? sure he has upvotes but it wouldn’t effect gameplay. they already have their fans doing all kinds of things for them. they don’t get extra gold, ingame items, or perks from blizzard from being upvoted. chances are if you see asmongold or any other streamer and he has a ton of upvotes, then you know its from his fans. it doesn’t do anything for them besides let others know people like them.
So take it down a notch… I do the same thing but for a super rare pet, or a store mount in guild…
The system can and will be gamed. Period. You’re better off just using the /ignore feature (that is if it worked).
Maybe but technology has made people lazier in general and that is undisputable.
Pretty sure my grandparents said the same thing as well as their grandparents. Adding “Ancient Greek” to something to make yourself seem smarter is laughable.
I am not trying to solve society as a whole. Just our little area of it. You think I am close minded but to shoot down an idea without considering both sides is also close minded.
Everyone gave their feedback but I gave mine and there was nothing brought up that didn’t have a readily available solution.
Well if you are anti-social and hate people then why play an MMO? Sure you can get by without having to say one word to someone for lower end content but if you never get past LFR or Heroic dungeons then how would this effect you?
The system will only be gamed if Blizzard provides incentives like exclusive rewards or some such non-sense to it and I am sure they are smarter than that. If a raid leader wants to check out your score before inviting you then that is their business. Same if they want to exclude you from their raid which is also their business. This is no different then how its been. Instead of having to go to several websites to look all this up, it would be ingame and not only info if you are a good (insert class) but also if you are cool or a jerk.
Yeah–nah. Don’t take this personally but I don’t want players in charge of anything.
If the forums are any kind of indicator of how players behave with the slightest of power, Players will give “dislikes” over the slightest perceived infraction.
This would be 100% abused to no end.
The idea isn’t to look smart (because that’s just silly), it’s to make the point that literally, we have quotes from Ancient Greek writers and philosophers opining the misery of the rising generation and its massive failures heralding the decline of Western civilization as a whole.
Then stop talking about “the problem with society today” and focus on WoW.
Not everyone agrees that your solutions are, in fact, solutions. In fact, most of your solutions given have simply been to say “so what, that wouldn’t be a real problem”. So I guess we’re all waiting for you to explain how this karma system would defy all our concerns, all of society’s actual proven habits, and how it would improve anything while also accomplishing these mind-boggling, gravity-defying feats of strength such as not being abused.
I mean, just look at the general culture of this game. If I run a talent someone else doesn’t like, they’ll leave a bad review for me. If they start screaming politics and I ask them to stop because it’s exhausting and I really can’t swallow it from the uninformed masses of either side, they’ll leave me a bad review. People have stated, verbatim, that they will kick someone from a pug for disliking their transmog. What’s to stop them from leaving a bad review stating the player was bad, when they weren’t?
Human nature is incredibly fallible, and fickle, and gamer kids significantly more so. A karma system would be like opening a can of rotten zombie-plague-carrying worms on the WoW community, and would probably chase off most of the decent, even-keeled people who are left, not scare off the toxic branch of the community as you seem to believe.
how would it be abused? on the forums people band together because they know each other from posting all the time. ingame is a completely different setting. the forums haven’t changed since day 1. ingame has changed social wise and not for the better.
I have been talking about WoW. Have you read nothing? Or are you reading what you want to read?
Maybe not but I have yet to see an actual rebuttal to my statements.
Will people in the game downvote just to downvote in the game? Yes. Will they gain any advantage by doing so? No. This is why we were put on this earth though. To think for ourselves. If we want to ignore feedback from players then we can do so. There is nothing compelling anyone to not group up with you based on feedback from other players. Like all things it has to be taken into context.
How about giving them a bad review for talking politics in the first place.
If a group kicks you for your transmog that is their right to do so but if that is the case then do you really want to group up with them. write them a bad review back.
Nothing. Like I said this is player feedback not a protection against feelings. How do you know if you were not playing bad if no one states it and just kicks you? Going back to my earlier statement, all feedback from this system needs to be taken into context of who is giving it. Gamer’s norms are not specifically societies norms even though it is own culture. All WoW players know the acceptable norms of the game and can probably make up their own mind on how to take the feedback.
No it hasn’t, their interests and obligations have simply shifted.
Why would you get defensive about that?
Generally people don’t actually care about the social aspect of the game. If people did you’d see more people recruiting for guilds, more people talking in dungeons, LFR, BG’s and raids. People just want to waste time because that’s what this game has become, a huge waste of time.
If people aren’t motivated towards using the system then the only votes people would ever get are negative ones, and you wouldn’t be able to differentiate those from troll votes.
You’re seriously like talking to a brick wall. I’ve given you two complete examples on how the system will be gamed… Not possibly, it will happen… Because that is human nature and you can’t see it nor even tell me how it won’t happen.
Done with you.
No. I don’t like the idea because it sounds a lot like the Communist Social Credit system, and is a way for snowflakes to enforce their vision of herd behavior upon the masses. No thanks.
You’re in a raid, you didn’t perform perfectly, you get a “dislike” and kicked from the group.
Someone doesn’t like the price of your AH-- They can slap you with a “dislike”…
Someone in BG didn’t like how you flagged the objective-- Slapped with a “Dislike”.
All the VTK-- you’ll get a “dislike” before the system kicks you.
No-- absolutely not. I do not want players in charge of my in game experience. You have the tools already to help you deal with Jerks and unreasonable players.
And yes, the same behavior takes place in game. Peoples personalities don’t change from one media form to the other.
Stopped taking your idea serious once I read that. Anyone who needs to find a way to put some streamer guys name in their post about what they said or do or have, makes me think you don’t think for yourself and are a sheeple.
Stopped officially reading here. Anytime you can dislike something or anything of that nature will get abused. Why do you think they even removed the downvote from the forums? If you are able to endorse the person, like in Overwatch, then that could be something to build on.
Also, I’m not sure why this was directed at my quote, because it has nothing to do with my quote … but I don’t hate people, and I’m quite social, but that doesn’t mean I’m not highly aware of just how nasty a percentage of this community can get. I play support roles; I’ve seen the ugly side of people; I don’t want to see it every time I open my profile and filter by negative reviews.
And to add on to something someone else said:
It’s like any kind of online review system. The majority of people talking will be there because they are angry enough to want to complain. It’s a known facet of human psychology. The happy people are the ones least likely to mention. So sure, when you get that one super incredible tank, maybe you’ll leave a nice note for him, but are you going to take the time to leave a nice note for all four group members after every decent no-hitches no-complaints but also not-spectacular pugs? Or will 99% of average players just go with negative-only reviews because no one says anything until that one time they accidentally face-pull a thing?