I know it took a while to respond to this one, but I feel this is something that probably should be figured out if toxic behavior is to be reduced. For the record, I don’t personally have issues with this anymore, but that is partly because I limit my socializing in the game. This post will be covering a proposed “Karma” system that is probably long overdue. Video link below. (ps. tried looking for the uploaded official video but there was none)
32:42 into the video and ends around 36:45
Edit: tried to link video but couldn’t. The YouTube video is titled: Asmongold Reacts to the Live Developer Q&A With Ion Hazzikostas on January 24, 2019
Its under the Assertonsin [Asmongold Stream Reactions] channel
Here is how you do this system:
Have a like and dislike button for a gameplay category (good player or bad player) and one for social (friendly player or unfriendly player) on a big match board popup window (kind of like overwatch’s end of match screen) at the end of every dungeon and raid and one if you leave a dungeon and raid group before the final boss kill.
You can also leave a small personal note (size of a Twitter message) under the like and dislike buttons as to why you gave the rating. This can be saved to this character and changed if you group up with them and see their character on the Karma popup window. Other players can see your note (more on that later). The note would have a timestamp on it as well as what content they were doing when it was posted. If they grouped up in a custom group then put the name of the custom group (“Darkshore Rare Farming Group WM Off” or whatever its called). If you were doing a dungeon or raid put [insert raid name (insert difficulty)]. If you were doing a custom dungeon or raid group then prioritize content name versus custom group name.
You can only vote once per category and per account (So no making multiple characters to downvote someone. If someone has multiple accounts then well that was an expensive vote. I am sure Blizzard can figure out how to minimize this if they are tied to a central Battlenet account) but it can be reversed if you group up with them later on the Karma popup window at the end and be reversed at that time.
The social vote and notes would be account wide (this is because a social vote is evaluating the player’s interactions with other players). The gameplay vote and note would be just for that character (this is because some people are better on certain classes).
If someone drops out of the dungeon or raid early a mini-icon would appear somewhere on the screen flashing. This would have a Karma popup window of all the players that left the group before the last boss kill and would remain there for 60 mins after you leave the group or until you have made a vote on all characters in that list.
There will also be an option to pass if you cant decide what rating to give the player.
There will be another tab under the character window that would contain this info and be viewable by the player (because some people don’t know they are bad socially, gameplay wise, or both) and other players (because it would incentivize players to police their own actions. Personal responsibility. Its a thing). The tab would have 2 columns: Social and Gameplay. Upvotes and Downvotes would appear at the top and comments below with the most recent being at the top. There would be as many comments as can fit on the page but there would also be a option at the bottom to view more where it will bring up a popup window of your last 100 or so comments for each catagory.
If you are doing matchmade content (LFD, LFR, Warfronts, Island Expeditions, etc.) and you have given a dislike to someone, the matchmaking system will attempt to avoid matching you with that player if at all possible. If there are no groups forming that match that criteria in 5 mins or so, the system will allow you to group up with those other players.
I dont know if someone has suggested this before or if there is some addon that does this already but I figured I would share my thoughts on this. Let me know if you like it or hate it. If you disagree with me can you please explain why. Let me know if some part of this is exploitable or could be abused some how. Before anyone says that this can be abused like Gearscore, Item Level, and Raider IO are abused then I would rebuttle that with this: Being a better human being can improve your situation and score. In Vanilla WoW, people were responsible for their actions and it had consequences. Since name changing, server hoping, character recustomizations, and faction transfers were introduced, the rise of toxicity in the community has only increased with players enjoying complete anonymity without fear of social repercussions. This would bring that balance back and allow players to police themselves more.
Also, no. You don’t get to leave a note on other players that follows them around. That is one of the worst suggestions I’ve seen relating to completely unnecessary social cool kid club systems.
I do not think the wow player base has the integrity to use a system judging other players wisely, and it would simply be abused to ridiculous degrees. A player’s game shouldn’t be impacted because a bunch of chuckleheads teamed up to leave negative reviews.
I am going to politely disagree with two of your three - while he may make good points from time to time (I agree with that) part, he is neither funny nor entertaining. I would rather give myself a bikini wax with a cheese grater than watch him for an extended period of time.
Yeah, as soon as I saw the reference to that guy, I stopped reading. Quoting him as a reference, you lose any and all credibility.
Karma systems are dumb, always have been. They’re abused and in video game forums, are rarely ever used right. Dislike buttons are almost always used as disagree buttons.
Well that is your call. I cant tell anyone to like him. Its something that people will have to make up their own minds about. Its like the Karma system. It is not barring you from anything. It is however giving an overview of how others perceive you and that can feel jarring and maybe hurt some feelings, but ultimately it will be up to the community whether they invite you to something or not.
The karma system is misleading. Allakhazam was a perfect example. Cliques would upvote posts from each other about being at work and bored or at home and drunk. They would end up with these visible ratings, giving the illusion that they’re a valuable poster when they’re anything but.
Cliques will also downvote anyone who disagrees with them or they just know and don’t like, giving the illusion that person is a bad poster. Go into competitive video game subreddits and you’ll see why.
How do I lose credibility because I like watching his videos? Did he hurt your feelings somehow? I did mention that I couldn’t link the official video so I had to post his as it was the only other source I know. He may not be politically correct but he gives honest feedback about things which I hold more valuable.
This is a stupid system for so many reasons. Karma and systems that people can vote on tend to prey on opinions rather than promote free thought and challenge ideas. The fact people can be targeted and silenced/banned for discussing topics others do not agree with is a serious problem already. Karma systems also tend to breed inaccurate, dishonest, or fake feedback due to users wanting to collect points and be on good terms rather than forming real discussion.
Right now I could argue you and people like you are being toxic because all you ever do is complain about others not being nice enough to your standards, and then trying to figure out ways to silence or ban others you disagree with. You are literally part of a plague of online users that just want people to be nice and agree with you.
This is the Internet. If it exists, people will find a way to abuse it. The only way to have a Karma system on the Internet that is not abused is to not have a Karma system.
In the words of a smart writer: “Interesting Game, the only way to win is not to play.”
Let’s not have a karma system because it is just used as a way to enforce herd behavior and stifles fun. If you don’t like someone, mute them and don’t play with them. you don’t need to “seek revenge” and punish them for their behavior.
This is why the votes don’t automate anything. They are there to give feedback. I know there are a lot of people that don’t like me for making this post. That is perfectly fine. The day that everyone agrees with me would be a bad day.
I know systems like this have been abused in the past. However, the WoW community has been here for quite a while and everyone knew how to police their communities back in vanilla. If someone was a ninja or if someone trolled a raid or dungeon group then they would get a kick and blacklisted. We have had these tools either ingame or out of game. This is nothing new. This is just a formal advice on how to do this since Blizzard brought it up in the Q&A and basically asked the community for their feedback. This is mine.
I don’t dislike you for making the post. I just know from personal experience why karma systems are not good.
The WoW community has been here for a while, but frankly, it’s not really improved. It’s just evolved from one bad entity to another. Granted, I’ll take the WoW community any day over the FFXIV community. Yes, we’ve had control tools but you hear all the time about them being abused. Why add more?
You mentioned adding small comments why they disliked you. Picture the cliques who will put “just cuz” or “lol”.
I get it, you’re suggesting something, which is more than I can say for many other people who will say something is bad but not suggest something better but oh god, karma systems are horrible.
how about signed your battletag whether you want it or not
So basically you don’t like the idea for the very reason that it should be implemented.
Some people like myself give honest feedback. You are under the assumption that it will be all lies. I guarantee there are more people besides myself willing to give honest feedback. The problem with society today is that they don’t want to hear they are wrong or possibly wrong in any way. It hurts their feelings. Maybe some feelings need to be hurt in order to strengthen you as a person later in life so you can deal with the world.
Imagine the damage asmongold’s (or any popular streamer) slavish followers would do to someone just on a passing suggestion if they could leave public notes on a players account.
It’s hilarious that OP can’t see why this is a problem.
Well, then a bunch of us are here to say you’re wrong.
A karma system sounds like a good idea, but I don’t think it’d do very much to be honest.
People would initially use the system and then completely forget it exists unless they are handed out rewards for honoring and being honorable. This would then cause problems with people abusing the system to gain rewards based on Karma farming.
It’s a very easily (hypothetically) abusable system.
Karma is subject to interpretation. A tank learning a new role just pulled too much and got the group killed, well they just lost Karma. A kid who says really edgy things and jokes about cancer, well he just gained Karma.
The game is dying, which means the pickings get slimmer and slimmer.
The time to do an initiative like this would have been ten or more years ago. A Karma initiative now will only punish the playerbase that already exists.
The forums use a pseudo Karma system, and it is obviously abusable. We see people getting shut down for having differing opinions all the time. This doesn’t mean that the upvote/downvote system doesn’t simultaneously do its job, but it is certainly open for exploitation.
This is actually how the real world works.
Asmon doesn’t have any original ideas. The Karma system isn’t new to the industry, and it was mentioned during the Q&A.
Realistically you shouldn’t, and a person saying you do is just making an absurd point. Ideas lose credibility after they’re critiqued not before. Just because I talk about something another person doesn’t like that doesn’t mean I should lose credibility, again, it’s absurd.
Actually League of Legends has a great karma system, though it took them a long time to flesh out.
well that’s not really good feedback and says nothing about a player or their skills. I would rather someone say “this guy is helpful or this guy does nothing in a group” kind of note. That is more informative to me. Would I group up with him if he does “nothing” in a group. Maybe if I had no one else but I would rather take someone who is helpful.
Well thanks for the compliment. I feel pretty passionately about this subject. If I didn’t then I wouldn’t have bothered.
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