11/13/2018 06:53 PMPosted by
Okagha
And what does the Horde get in your revenge fantasies?
If I have to be 100% completely honest, I say they already get
more than they deserve by being allowed to continue to exist after commiting actual, described-as-such-in-universe genocide. Against a
playable race, no less.
1 Like
11/13/2018 07:11 PMPosted by
Zabriel
To commit genocide against a Horde race in return? Is that what you mean?
sure, why not? it would be justified, they started it. they wanted to enrage the kaldorei and the alliance, they would get what they deserve. but that is only my opinion as a non-nelf player.
11/13/2018 07:11 PMPosted by
Zabriel
...
can you please tell me what makes you think that i am talking about what the horde wants?
i just want to talk about the kaldorei and what i think they deserve as a faction, an eye for an eye, if the horde players would want that is irrelevant to this topic (of course not)because nelfs players were treated pretty badly, they pay for this game just like anybody else and they deserve to get something in return.
To commit genocide against a Horde race in return? Is that what you mean?
I really haven't seen this request all that much from night elf players.
It seems most just want to kill Sylvanas, but that's a lot to ask for apparently. At most, crush the Horde forces in Darkshore and take back their lands. But that whole story is stuck in a back and forth warfront with no winner, where the Horde 'wins' Darkshore just as much.
Night Elves will be big in the Moon expansion.
11/13/2018 06:53 PMPosted by
Okagha
And what does the Horde get in your revenge fantasies?
If I have to be 100% completely honest, I say they already get more than they deserve by being allowed to continue to exist after commiting actual, described-as-such-in-universe genocide. Against a playable race, no less.
do you have any idea how asinine your statement sounds? We get the honor of continuing to exist, for something that is wholly beyond our ability to control (ie the story). A story that has pissed off the horde playerbase as much as it has the alliance. A story that makes the Horde look like the most incompetent villian in the history of fiction, setting up one of the few characters we have for a loot pinata.
Personally I think the night elves should burn down a Horde orphanage and then receive a sound thrashing from the writers for the next three expansions on why, exactly, they're so evil and horrible and how wrong they are for burning down that orphanage. I think the writers should make it their priority to detail, in exquisitely-crafted cinematics and questlines, just how awful this orphanage-burning was, and how justified the Horde is in killing them like animals. I think the writers should retcon every bad thing the Horde has ever done against the night elves to ensure the Horde are always the good guys. I think the night elves should receive retcons to their past culture which completely destroys what they'd been built on for the sake of some Chinese movie money. I think they should be reminded why their race is so crappy and evil and stupid and how surface-level all of them are because of course we should judge a race by its appearance, that's exactly how that race acts at all times and they should never stray from that restrictive box despite the fact that their straying from that restrictive box is one of the things which made Warcraft famous.
i'm a little salty and tired right now can't you tell
1 Like
11/13/2018 08:19 PMPosted by
Vozul
Personally I think the night elves should burn down a Horde orphanage and then receive a sound thrashing from the writers for the next three expansions on why, exactly, they're so evil and horrible and how wrong they are for burning down that orphanage.
Actually, they'd stop right before the thrashing commences and the Warchief will lecture you on why wanting revenge is wrong and offer up part of your ancestral land to the Kal'dorei as a peace-offering on top of the land you've already died defending.
Justice!
11/13/2018 05:35 PMPosted by
Saiphas
I would also point out that to get the success of the Battle for Da, we have a multracial coalition that performs a suicide mission to draw off the Horde and Zandalari forces. These forces die so that the alliance gets their shot. The Alliance pays for its strike in blood, and wins, and it is in fact a decisive military victory. But that does not mean we get it without breaking a sweat.
I don't get your point. It's war. Soldiers on both sides are going to die in a war--that's just the way it is. It's not some kind of ultra-special dramatic sacrifice to "pay for your strike in blood."
Do you think the Horde lost no soldiers when going through Ashenvale "without breaking a sweat"? Because
Elegy says otherwise.
11/13/2018 06:53 PMPosted by
Okagha
And what does the Horde get in your revenge fantasies? Or is it just going to be dump all over the Horde for an entire expansion so Alliance players can feel good about themselves? No thanks because we've already done that in MoP
can you please tell me what makes you think that i am talking about what the horde wants?
i just want to talk about the kaldorei and what i think they deserve as a faction, an eye for an eye, if the horde players would want that is irrelevant to this topic (of course not)because nelfs players were treated pretty badly, they pay for this game just like anybody else and they deserve to get something in return.
The nature of warfare is that hardly anyone gets what they deserve. The story progresses and some prosper while others suffer. AND I HAVE NO PROBEM WITH THAT even though I personally mourn the loss of what was destroyed. The Night Elf player has no basis for complaint. You got to play as much as any other player. For comparison, the Alamo is the supreme story they tell about in Texas, not the victory that came after it fell. Teldrassil is the Night Elve's Alamo. How the story ultimately resolves is still yet to be revealed.
That's what I've been saying this whole time. Why are Alliance and Night Elf players complaining about not enjoying the story when the Alamo was an actual real life occurrence?
It completely baffles me. I mean, we've got precedent, case closed.
Just wait and see.
...
can you please tell me what makes you think that i am talking about what the horde wants?
i just want to talk about the kaldorei and what i think they deserve as a faction, an eye for an eye, if the horde players would want that is irrelevant to this topic (of course not)because nelfs players were treated pretty badly, they pay for this game just like anybody else and they deserve to get something in return.
The nature of warfare is that hardly anyone gets what they deserve. The story progresses and some prosper while others suffer. AND I HAVE NO PROBEM WITH THAT even though I personally mourn the loss of what was destroyed. The Night Elf player has no basis for complaint. You got to play as much as any other player. For comparison, the Alamo is the supreme story they tell about in Texas, not the victory that came after it fell. Teldrassil is the Night Elve's Alamo. How the story ultimately resolves is still yet to be revealed.
Some nelf players are just too butthurt they wont be happy till every race other than nelfs are deleted
11/13/2018 08:54 PMPosted by
Pellex
11/13/2018 05:35 PMPosted by
Saiphas
I would also point out that to get the success of the Battle for Da, we have a multracial coalition that performs a suicide mission to draw off the Horde and Zandalari forces. These forces die so that the alliance gets their shot. The Alliance pays for its strike in blood, and wins, and it is in fact a decisive military victory. But that does not mean we get it without breaking a sweat.
I don't get your point. It's war. Soldiers on both sides are going to die in a war--that's just the way it is. It's not some kind of ultra-special dramatic sacrifice to "pay for your strike in blood."
Do you think the Horde lost no soldiers when going through Ashenvale "without breaking a sweat"? Because Elegy says otherwise.
Pellex, there were several Horde players in the previous page asserting that the Alliance wanted to curbstomp the opposition without paying any price, I was attempting to show that in fact the Alliance did pay a price for the Battle of Da, and it WAS a victor.
11/13/2018 05:35 PMPosted by
Saiphas
I would also point out that to get the success of the Battle for Da, we have a multracial coalition that performs a suicide mission to draw off the Horde and Zandalari forces. These forces die so that the alliance gets their shot. The Alliance pays for its strike in blood, and wins, and it is in fact a decisive military victory. But that does not mean we get it without breaking a sweat.
Throwing away some lvl 1 trash mobs when there are LITERALLY infinitely more of them means nothing.
Did a single named character sacrifice themselves? Geblin got an upgrade for 8.2, and Jaina is completely fine 30 seconds later chatting it up with the Alliance leaders.
Anduin won’t let it get that far. In fact he’ll let the Horde keep Ashenvale.
11/13/2018 05:35 PMPosted by
Saiphas
I would also point out that to get the success of the Battle for Da, we have a multracial coalition that performs a suicide mission to draw off the Horde and Zandalari forces. These forces die so that the alliance gets their shot. The Alliance pays for its strike in blood, and wins, and it is in fact a decisive military victory. But that does not mean we get it without breaking a sweat.
Throwing away some lvl 1 trash mobs when there are LITERALLY infinitely more of them means nothing.
Did a single named character sacrifice themselves? Geblin got an upgrade for 8.2, and Jaina is completely fine 30 seconds later chatting it up with the Alliance leaders.
We only got a laugh in the face by Jaina in BfD...
11/13/2018 05:35 PMPosted by
Saiphas
I would also point out that to get the success of the Battle for Da, we have a multracial coalition that performs a suicide mission to draw off the Horde and Zandalari forces. These forces die so that the alliance gets their shot. The Alliance pays for its strike in blood, and wins, and it is in fact a decisive military victory. But that does not mean we get it without breaking a sweat.
Throwing away some lvl 1 trash mobs when there are LITERALLY infinitely more of them means nothing.
Did a single named character sacrifice themselves? Geblin got an upgrade for 8.2, and Jaina is completely fine 30 seconds later chatting it up with the Alliance leaders.
Except that the Developers clearly do not agree with your assessment, hence the framing of Lost Honor. You can disagree that the narrative weight is not there, but the intent is that yes, those loses matter. *Shrug* Blizz is stating that casualties do matter. If all you care about is the characters in the world and not how the societies in the game are bearing the cost of the war then Blizzard's storytelling won't resonate, because they don't view those soldiers as throwaway in the narrative. There is an entire alliance chapter in the War Campaign dedicated to giving the choice of these units to sacrifice themselves weight. Sorry it doesn't resonate with what you define as sacrifice.
11/13/2018 09:41 PMPosted by
Saiphas
Except that the Developers clearly do not agree with your assessment, hence the framing of Lost Honor. You can disagree that the narrative weight is not there, but the intent is that yes, those loses matter. *Shrug* Blizz is stating that casualties do matter. If all you care about is the characters in the world and not how the societies in the game are bearing the cost of the war then Blizzard's storytelling won't resonate, because they don't view those soldiers as throwaway in the narrative. There is an entire alliance chapter in the War Campaign dedicated to giving the choice of these units to sacrifice themselves weight. Sorry it doesn't resonate with what you define as sacrifice.
Kobold lives matter.
*shrug* I get it, you don't think the sacrifices match the weight the narrative places on it. Unfortunately Blizzard views it differently, they clearly do not view characters as the sole means of imparting sacrifices in their storytelling, so if all you are looking at is character deaths for a tit-for-tat you are setting yourself up for even more bitterness and disappointment.
I genuinely empathize with those who want revenge for the night elves. The problem, for me at least, is that the revenge must be enacted on horde players.
For many of us, myself included, what happened to the night elves sucked. It was a pointless act of evil that pretty much served to ruin the horde plot entirely. For people who feel this way, it is hard to then accept that we must suffer retribution for that event we hated.
I don't intend to derail, I just thought this could be an important part of the discussion.
2 Likes
11/13/2018 10:15 PMPosted by
Verlius
I genuinely empathize with those who want revenge for the night elves. The problem, for me at least, is that the revenge must be enacted on horde players.
For many of us, myself included, what happened to the night elves sucked. It was a pointless act of evil that pretty much served to ruin the horde plot entirely. For people who feel this way, it is hard to then accept that we must suffer retribution for that event we hated.
I don't intend to derail, I just thought this could be an importantl part of the discussion.
Which is why the entire faction war is frustrating for me. This entire zero-sum crap is really infurriating.