I don't think you have anything to worry about Verlius.
The hints that keep being dropped seem to indicate that while Sylvanas will be a raid(?) boss, she's probably gonna get the Jaina treatment and wont meet her end there. I know that's a concern of yours.
As for the revenge thing, well, clearly my countrymen would like some recompense which, as Saiphas so often points out, runs counter to Alliance themes of forgiveness.
Ultimately, I just think time's gonna run out and the war will end before an opportunity for vengeance is realized; we'll have to stop killing each other to kill the big bad 'fore it kills us all. Which makes the whole Night Elves are vengeance now thing fall flat.
11/13/2018 10:36 PMPosted by RhunaI don't think you have anything to worry about Verlius.
The hints that keep being dropped seem to indicate that while Sylvanas will be a raid(?) boss, she's probably gonna get the Jaina treatment and wont meet her end there. I know that's a concern of yours.
As for the revenge thing, well, clearly my countrymen would like some recompense which, as Saiphas so often points out, runs counter to Alliance themes of forgiveness.
Ultimately, I just think time's gonna run out and the war will end before an opportunity for vengeance is realized; we'll have to stop killing each other to kill the big bad 'fore it kills us all. Which makes the whole Night Elves are vengeance now thing fall flat.
I appreciate that. I know plenty would like to off Sylvanas during this story as well, it really sucks that we can't get a story we would all enjoy.
Tbh, with how much of a train wreck this war story has been, I hope we can get out of it as soon as possible, and wi as little damage to the world and its characters as possible. Hell, if it was possible I'd rewind time to the end of Argus and start over, lol.
11/13/2018 10:15 PMPosted by VerliusI genuinely empathize with those who want revenge for the night elves. The problem, for me at least, is that the revenge must be enacted on horde players.
For many of us, myself included, what happened to the night elves sucked. It was a pointless act of evil that pretty much served to ruin the horde plot entirely. For people who feel this way, it is hard to then accept that we must suffer retribution for that event we hated.
I don't intend to derail, I just thought this could be an important part of the discussion.
It is fair that you not be punished for something you did not want to do.
However, what of the Night Elf players who have already been punished for something that they did not want to have happen?
The Night Elf story is no longer one of power fantasy, but of horror.
Increasingly, I feel that the only way that I can stop feeling bad about this story and this game is to stop playing altogether.
Never. because theres nothing The Horde has that would be properly satisfying to take from the Horde compared to what was lost. That goes for all the Races.
There is no winning BFA for anyone. The only sensible move is to not play at all.
There is no winning BFA for anyone. The only sensible move is to not play at all.
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11/13/2018 10:15 PMPosted by VerliusI genuinely empathize with those who want revenge for the night elves. The problem, for me at least, is that the revenge must be enacted on horde players.
Not exactly, see my point below:
11/13/2018 08:57 PMPosted by DrahlianaThe nature of warfare is that hardly anyone gets what they deserve. The story progresses and some prosper while others suffer. AND I HAVE NO PROBEM WITH THAT even though I personally mourn the loss of what was destroyed. The Night Elf player has no basis for complaint.
hey, that's precisely why i used gilneas and theramore as examples and created this thread.
if we don't get revenge, at least they can get spotlight, like i said, jaina by example and her massive defeat at theramore, in the end what happened just benefit her story to not make it boring,six years later she gets a massive character arc and spotlight with the potencial of soloing the horde army being badass and turned in one of the greatest heros of the alliance of all time.
Now, like said, a similar case can occur and hope it do that this event changes the nelfs forever for the best, this is in benefit for their story, like blizzard said, the story is about highs and lows.
i do understand that probably the nelfs will not get an eye for an eye, but me, personally, i will enjoy it and say that is worth it after i see tyrande soloing the entire battlefield with a damn starfall in a cgi cinematic, that's my actual fantasy.
and that is far more likely to happen than the complete extermination of the horde.
how long we are going to have to wait to see something similar?
Right on the money tbh.11/13/2018 10:13 AMPosted by HahahahahahaI think 8.1 is as much revenge as the night elves are going to get. So to answer the question in the title: 1 patch.
Meta wise, the Night Elves lost 0 "important" people, and their capital. The Forsaken lost 0 "important" people and their capital. So any revenge they get beyond 8.1 will have to be answered in kind.
If Nathanos gets killed, Shandris would be the most likely mirror unit on the NE side. Do we want her to die?
11/13/2018 09:14 PMPosted by SaiphasPellex, there were several Horde players in the previous page asserting that the Alliance wanted to curbstomp the opposition without paying any price, I was attempting to show that in fact the Alliance did pay a price for the Battle of Da, and it WAS a victor.
Okay, but that doesn't prove you don't want to curbstomp the Horde without paying any price. Just sayin'! :-)
11/14/2018 01:39 AMPosted by Rilyanna11/13/2018 10:15 PMPosted by VerliusI genuinely empathize with those who want revenge for the night elves. The problem, for me at least, is that the revenge must be enacted on horde players.
For many of us, myself included, what happened to the night elves sucked. It was a pointless act of evil that pretty much served to ruin the horde plot entirely. For people who feel this way, it is hard to then accept that we must suffer retribution for that event we hated.
I don't intend to derail, I just thought this could be an important part of the discussion.
It is fair that you not be punished for something you did not want to do.
However, what of the Night Elf players who have already been punished for something that they did not want to have happen?
The Night Elf story is no longer one of power fantasy, but of horror.
Increasingly, I feel that the only way that I can stop feeling bad about this story and this game is to stop playing altogether.
Night Elf players are not being punished. You got to play, you got the usual loots, you'll be getting better loots from the new warfront, and you got action and drama. the Texans lost at the Alamo, but they still give that event a lot more importance and attention than the victory they acheived later. The story tht led up to the fall of Teldrassil was a heck of a lot more substantive than the non-existant leadup to Battle of Lordaeron. If anything, Forsaken players have a lot more to complain about.
11/13/2018 10:38 AMPosted by Etheldald11/13/2018 10:13 AMPosted by HahahahahahaMeta wise, the Night Elves lost 0 "important" people, and their capital. The Forsaken lost 0 "important" people and their capital. So any revenge they get beyond 8.1 will have to be answered in kind.
not really, they still need to do a good catch-up with the civilians and delaryn was also killed and raised,and also, sira.
thats two named nelf and a huge amount of civlians.
and that is not the point of the thread either.11/13/2018 10:32 AMPosted by AuretonSo don't discount Shandris fans, most characters in this game don't have a fanbase purely because they're never given spotlight... and then they die.
This, i am feeling the same with telamon right now lol.
TFW the Draenei are finally given a few more NPCs of note and one of them dies right away.
Oh well, at least Enaara isn't dead. For now...
11/14/2018 01:39 AMPosted by Rilyanna...
It is fair that you not be punished for something you did not want to do.
However, what of the Night Elf players who have already been punished for something that they did not want to have happen?
The Night Elf story is no longer one of power fantasy, but of horror.
Increasingly, I feel that the only way that I can stop feeling bad about this story and this game is to stop playing altogether.
Night Elf players are not being punished. You got to play, you got the usual loots, you'll be getting better loots from the new warfront, and you got action and drama. the Texans lost at the Alamo, but they still give that event a lot more importance and attention than the victory they acheived later. The story tht led up to the fall of Teldrassil was a heck of a lot more substantive than the non-existant leadup to Battle of Lordaeron. If anything, Forsaken players have a lot more to complain about.
This post is a joke right? Please tell me it's a joke. ESPECIALLY the bolded.
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...
Night Elf players are not being punished. You got to play, you got the usual loots, you'll be getting better loots from the new warfront, and you got action and drama. the Texans lost at the Alamo, but they still give that event a lot more importance and attention than the victory they acheived later. The story tht led up to the fall of Teldrassil was a heck of a lot more substantive than the non-existant leadup to Battle of Lordaeron. If anything, Forsaken players have a lot more to complain about.
This post is a joke right? Please tell me it's a joke. ESPECIALLY the bolded.
On the lead up to the War of Thorns, the alliance players got a brand new leader to rally around, you followed her from her battlefield commission following the massacre at Astranaar all the way up to the final defense at Lor'danil. She was everything you would want in a leader, brave, tatical, inspiring, and even some humor from time to time. On the Horde side of that combat it was pretty much Go There, Do This, Kill That... save that you were taking orders from the Big Cheese herself. Forsaken players not no investment from the War of Thorns and there wasn't anything leading up to Lordaeron.
11/14/2018 06:44 AMPosted by Drahliana...
This post is a joke right? Please tell me it's a joke. ESPECIALLY the bolded.
On the lead up to the War of Thorns, the alliance players got a brand new leader to rally around, you followed her from her battlefield commission following the massacre at Astranaar all the way up to the final defense at Lor'danil. She was everything you would want in a leader, brave, tatical, inspiring, and even some humor from time to time. On the Horde side of that combat it was pretty much Go There, Do This, Kill That... save that you were taking orders from the Big Cheese herself. Forsaken players not no investment from the War of Thorns and there wasn't anything leading up to Lordaeron.
... she DIED. And is now HORDE. The Night Elves got genocided while Forsaken players got to cackle and laugh as they achieved complete victory.
C'mon now. There was nothing enjoyable for a Night Elf player in the war of thorns. Nothing. Nada. Zilch. Rien.
In fact it was super painful to play through. (3 of my 5 120's are Night Elves)
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11/13/2018 09:22 PMPosted by HahahahahahaThrowing away some lvl 1 trash mobs when there are LITERALLY infinitely more of them means nothing.
Did a single named character sacrifice themselves? Geblin got an upgrade for 8.2, and Jaina is completely fine 30 seconds later chatting it up with the Alliance leaders.
Blademaster Telaamon sacrifices himself on the Suicide Mission and Grand Admiral Jes-Tereth falls in the Battle of Dazar'alor. They may be secondary characters, but they are important. Unless you consider a "sacrifice" as ONLY counting if its a Racial Faction Leader ... and if that's the case, then with Vol'jin becoming a Loa the Horde has only really lost two (Cairne and Garrosh); while the Alliance has lost one (Varian). Characters like Kael'thas don't count because he was NEVER a leader while the BEs were part of the Horde; and Rastakhan SHOULDN'T count because his death was so advertised it wasn't even worth getting invested in him.
11/14/2018 06:10 AMPosted by Drahliana11/14/2018 01:39 AMPosted by Rilyanna...
It is fair that you not be punished for something you did not want to do.
However, what of the Night Elf players who have already been punished for something that they did not want to have happen?
The Night Elf story is no longer one of power fantasy, but of horror.
Increasingly, I feel that the only way that I can stop feeling bad about this story and this game is to stop playing altogether.
Night Elf players are not being punished. You got to play, you got the usual loots, you'll be getting better loots from the new warfront, and you got action and drama. the Texans lost at the Alamo, but they still give that event a lot more importance and attention than the victory they acheived later. The story tht led up to the fall of Teldrassil was a heck of a lot more substantive than the non-existant leadup to Battle of Lordaeron. If anything, Forsaken players have a lot more to complain about.
By this logic Kaldorei players will be swooning with racial pride when we have been made extinct as a race, when players can no longer make new Night Elves, and all existing PC Kaldorei are permanently deleted from the servers.
I mean total extinction is the most tragic story of all. Totes better than winning.
The Russians also give the Siege of Leningrad and the Battle for Stalingrad a lot of importance and attention too. They did in fact win both. Both, however, were harrowing nightmares of unimaginable proportion.
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<span class="truncated">...</span>
This post is a joke right? Please tell me it's a joke. ESPECIALLY the bolded.
On the lead up to the War of Thorns, the alliance players got a brand new leader to rally around, you followed her from her battlefield commission following the massacre at Astranaar all the way up to the final defense at Lor'danil. She was everything you would want in a leader, brave, tatical, inspiring, and even some humor from time to time. On the Horde side of that combat it was pretty much Go There, Do This, Kill That... save that you were taking orders from the Big Cheese herself. Forsaken players not no investment from the War of Thorns and there wasn't anything leading up to Lordaeron.
That would have been awesome if she then didn't get raised as Forsaken, turn against her people, and become a new lapdog for the woman who slaughtered her and her people in the War of Thorns.
So, in actuality, it was the Horde that got a brand new leader who is, using your own words, "everything you would want in a leader, brave, tatical, inspiring, and even some humor from time to time".
11/14/2018 07:35 AMPosted by YritheThat would have been awesome if she then didn't get raised as Forsaken, turn against her people, and become a new lapdog for the woman who slaughtered her and her people in the War of Thorns.
So, in actuality, it was the Horde that got a brand new leader who is, using your own words, "everything you would want in a leader, brave, tatical, inspiring, and even some humor from time to time".
If it makes you feel better, Summermoon has like a 90 percent chance of turning on Sylvie IMO. She has way, way too many "Raising of the Ranger General" parallels for it to go down any other way. It also helps that unlike Sira she has almost no actual dialogue in game yet, she's just sort of out of it staring at her hand.
Sadly, be the time she reaches the Horde, she's kind of a back alley dumpster version. Crazy and illogical. But at least she looks cool.11/14/2018 07:35 AMPosted by YritheSo, in actuality, it was the Horde that got a brand new leader who is, using your own words, "everything you would want in a leader, brave, tatical, inspiring, and even some humor from time to time".
https://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/screenshots/normal/792337.jpg
11/14/2018 07:35 AMPosted by YritheSo, in actuality, it was the Horde that got a brand new leader who is, using your own words, "everything you would want in a leader, brave, tatical, inspiring, and even some humor from time to time".
We don't, though. We get a hollow shell with all her fun qualities stripped away, who's probably going to turn on us anyway.
11/14/2018 07:41 AMPosted by Droité
If it makes you feel better, Summermoon has like a 90 percent chance of turning on Sylvie IMO. She has way, way too many "Raising of the Ranger General" parallels for it to go down any other way. It also helps that unlike Sira she has almost no actual dialogue in game yet, she's just sort of out of it staring at her hand.
I definitely hope so.
11/14/2018 07:43 AMPosted by HahahahahahaSadly, be the time she reaches the Horde, she's kind of a back alley dumpster version. Crazy and illogical. But at least she looks cool.
https://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/screenshots/normal/792337.jpg
We were talking about Delaryn.
Sira didn't even want to be a leader, apparently, lol. But about her, how is she crazy or illogical as a warfront commander? I haven't played it on PTR, I'm just curious if something came up in her dialog.
11/13/2018 05:02 PMPosted by Savanovic11/13/2018 04:59 PMPosted by CarmageddonYou think it doesn't count because the Horde was forced to blow up the capital themselves (in a FAILED attempt to kill the Alliance leaders)? The Horde was fighting to win that battle and defend that city and zone.
Pyrrhic victory, as they say. So yes, we don't consider it an equalizer. Not to mention the War of Thorns was not just the burning of Teldrassil, that was just the final point. However the thing in it's entirety saw the Alliance lose multiple zones; Ashenvale, Darkshore and finally Teldrassil. Battle for Lordaeron only saw the loss of Tirisfal for the Horde. The equivalent would've had to been something like, Hillsbrad, Silverpine AND Tirisfal falling at the end in an equal war campaign.
The two sides lost the same number of zones: one. There is now fighting in other zones, but if the war tables are to be believed it is the Alliance that is largely on the counter-offensive. This is supported by what is happening with the next patch, with fighting in Darkshore and Dar'Zalor.
The Alliance and Horde both took out a zone and a capital. It's true that the Alliance failed in Anduin's declared victory condition in Lordaeron, but that's because his stated goal was the removal of Sylvanas. But they still razed the zone and forced the Horde to blow up their own city. The Horde didn't manage to get the win they were looking for either.
Don't tell me taking out Undercity (not to mention reclaiming Stromgarde) haven't been Alliance fantasies since Vanilla. In all that time, did we see a single thread with Horde players pining to destroy...Teldrassil?